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1 STATE OF FLORIDA
CONSTITUTION REVISION COMMISSION
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COMMISSION MEETING
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DATE: September 25, 1997
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TIME: Commenced at 9:15 a.m.
11 Concluded at 2:30 p.m.
12 PLACE: The Senate Chamber
The Capitol
13 Tallahassee, Florida
14 REPORTED BY: JULIE L. DOHERTY, RPR
KRISTEN L. BENTLEY
15 Court Reporters
Division of Administrative Hearings
16 The DeSoto Building
1230 Apalachee Parkway
17 Tallahassee, Florida
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1 APPEARANCES
2 W. DEXTER DOUGLASS, CHAIRMAN
3 CARLOS ALFONSO
CLARENCE E. ANTHONY
4 ANTONIO L. ARGIZ (ABSENT)
JUDGE THOMAS H. BARKDULL, JR.
5 MARTHA WALTERS BARNETT
ROBERT M. BROCHIN
6 THE HONORABLE ROBERT A. BUTTERWORTH
KEN CONNOR
7 CHRIS CORR (ABSENT)
SENATOR ANDER CRENSHAW (ABSENT)
8 VALERIE EVANS
MARILYN EVANS-JONES
9 BARBARA WILLIAMS FORD-COATES
ELLEN CATSMAN FREIDIN
10 PAUL HAWKES (ABSENT)
WILLIAM CLAY HENDERSON
11 THE HONORABLE TONI JENNINGS (ABSENT)
THE HONORABLE GERALD KOGAN
12 DICK LANGLEY
JOHN F. LOWNDES
13 STANLEY MARSHALL
JACINTA MATHIS
14 JON LESTER MILLS
FRANK MORSANI
15 ROBERT LOWRY NABORS
CARLOS PLANAS (ABSENT)
16 JUDITH BYRNE RILEY
KATHERINE FERNANDEZ RUNDLE
17 SENATOR JIM SCOTT
H. T. SMITH
18 CHRIS T. SULLIVAN
ALAN C. SUNDBERG
19 JAMES HAROLD THOMPSON (ABSENT)
PAUL WEST
20 JUDGE GERALD T. WETHERINGTON
STEPHEN NEAL ZACK
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PAT BARTON (ABSENT)
22 IRA H. LEESFIELD
LYRA BLIZZARD LOGAN
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1 PROCEEDINGS
2 (Roll taken and recorded electronically.)
3 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Commissioners, be seated and we
4 will come to order. Commissioners and guests in the
5 gallery, please rise for the opening prayer given this
6 morning by Commissioner Evans.
7 COMMISSIONER EVANS: Let us pray. Our Father and
8 Creator, we invoke your guidance today as we begin to
9 consider the proposals for our Constitution. We know that
10 the founding fathers of our great nation knew you and
11 followed your guidance in establishing our republic
12 according to your will. Our founding fathers knew that
13 you are the ultimate authority for law and that you alone
14 are flawless. They knew that man cannot successfully
15 tamper with that authority and they knew and required that
16 state constitutions adhere to that authority. So again,
17 we ask that you use us today as your instruments so that
18 we can continue to maintain the greatness of this state
19 and nation all for your glory and honor. Amen.
20 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Commissioner Henderson will lead
21 us in the pledge of allegiance to the flag.
22 (Pledge of allegiance.)
23 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: We now proceed to the daily order
24 of business, receiving communications.
25 READING CLERK: None on the desk, Mr. Chairman.
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1 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Introductions of proposals.
2 READING CLERK: None on the desk, Mr. Chairman.
3 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Reports of committees.
4 Commissioner Barkdull, chairman of the rules and
5 administration, to discuss the commission meeting
6 schedule, process for today's consideration of public
7 proposals, necessity of committee meetings for today and
8 Friday. Commissioner Barkdull.
9 COMMISSIONER BARKDULL: Mr. Chairman and members of
10 the commission, on your desk you will find a written
11 report of the rules committee that met yesterday
12 afternoon. The substance of it is, recommendation No. 1,
13 is that the commission go through the proposals that are
14 contained in your yellow booklet that is on your desk
15 dated September 17. And this has the public's proposals
16 and their testimony through the first seven meetings, that
17 we will ultimately have to take up the last five meetings
18 at our next scheduled session in October.
19 The report also indicates that the calendar attached
20 is a schedule of meetings that has been altered somewhat
21 from what we had distributed earlier.
22 Principally it was occasioned by the Senate having
23 scheduled their committee meetings for January and
24 February. And because the consensus of the rules
25 committee yesterday was that in lieu of having two
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1 meetings in October, two in November and possibly two in
2 December, that we schedule only one meeting for each of
3 those months, I think we probably added a day or two to
4 that schedule. So that is a significant change that has
5 been made in the proposed dates that we would meet.
6 The third recommendation was that we set a deadline
7 for consideration of public proposals that would come into
8 the office by way of mail primarily, now that we have
9 concluded the last of the oral public hearings. And at
10 that date because we have been receiving and the public
11 has been on notice since June, and we of course traveled
12 the state to consider their proposed, whatever they wanted
13 to indicate, that that date be October 6.
14 Now we have been indicating all along that the
15 members should submit their individual proposals and they
16 can either draft them themselves or they can ask the
17 secretary to submit them to bill drafting and have them do
18 it for them.
19 We are recommending that the date for cutoff for the
20 individual members to file their suggestions would be
21 November 25. The reason for this is that we have got to
22 get into the substance of these issues and determine
23 whether we are going to advance them towards being placed
24 on the ballot.
25 For all practical purposes, with the Legislature
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1 convening on the first Tuesday in March, which I believe
2 is either the 2nd or 3rd of March, the great bulk of our
3 work has got to be done, I think, and the committee feels,
4 probably by the end of February. And those of you will
5 see that January and February have blanked out two weeks
6 for each of those months. If we don't need them, that's
7 fine, but you should have the opportunity to know at this
8 point for your calendars at home when you might be
9 expected up here to wrap up the final votes and
10 consideration of the packaging of these proposals so that
11 we will be substantially complete with our work by the end
12 of February.
13 That concludes the report, Mr. Chairman.
14 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Commissioner Evans-Jones.
15 COMMISSIONER EVANS-JONES: Mr. Chairman, I move
16 acceptance of the rules committee report.
17 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. Debate? Commissioner
18 Scott.
19 COMMISSIONER SCOTT: All right. Mr. Chairman, for
20 some time now, I have struggled and several of us have
21 struggled with a way to handle these public proposals, and
22 in general I suppose the work of the commission.
23 Let me start from the back end. Yesterday we found
24 out, I think Judge Barkdull and I at the same time, that
25 this list we have here does not include Daytona,
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1 Ft. Myers, Tampa and of course Tallahassee, which was just
2 yesterday, as well as as many, 150 I think I heard or 200
3 or maybe more written proposals that have been submitted
4 to the commission office.
5 So what I have come up with, working with several
6 commissioners, as a way to get this public proposals
7 moving is on your desk. It is a list of several items
8 which have been brought up by the public. It is -- it is
9 not me or anyone else who might agree with this, it is not
10 our endorsement that any action is necessary on these
11 proposals, but that they had significant public interest
12 or in some cases that we know -- and in some cases we know
13 that members are going to file them.
14 They have been arranged by articles and I suppose
15 what I would like to do is prior to adoption to report on
16 how we proceed is to discuss the idea of putting out this
17 list of basically committee proposals or copies that would
18 go to committees. The committees would then take the
19 public proposal, discuss it, determine what they want to
20 file and that they would then be able to file the
21 proposals for consideration of the commission.
22 Now, the other way is fine. We can go through, on
23 any particular subject, we move a particular item. And I
24 might point out to you that the public proposals -- we
25 have had all these public hearings and they have been
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1 listed and they are published in the journal. So the
2 question are they being considered, they have been
3 considered.
4 So when appropriate, and I've not made the motion, I
5 don't know exactly, I would like to make a motion and the
6 commission look at this list and see if this covers most
7 of your, of the concerns that you feel have been raised or
8 that you think the commission could consider based on the
9 public input we have received.
10 Keeping in mind that in addition to this, any member
11 can file any proposal that they wish to at any time up to
12 a deadline, which is, if we adopt the rules committee
13 report, sets forth a deadline in I think November. And if
14 you want to add something to this motion for the
15 committees to consider, you could add to it.
16 So I wanted to raise this subject and I did try to
17 raise it, I mentioned it at the rules committee yesterday,
18 and I mentioned it before to the chairman of rules and to
19 the chairman of the commission.
20 So with that discussion, I would like to, when
21 appropriate, move this motion. And it is not in lieu of,
22 although it was originally discussed, it is not in lieu of
23 going through but at least when we go through these item
24 by item, if you adopted this, you would know what items
25 are going to be submitted for consideration and you could
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1 take that under consideration as to whether you wanted to
2 move and discuss and debate and try to have ten votes on
3 any particular procedure.
4 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Commissioner Mills.
5 COMMISSIONER MILLS: Mr. Chairman, one of the things
6 I think that we have all shared in this process is how
7 special the public participation has been. We have had
8 people who absolutely have been terminal patients, who
9 have had personal problems, who have been willing to share
10 with this commission things that you wonder if they would
11 share with their priest. So I think that we feel a pretty
12 special relationship to the public.
13 And what I have -- I have been discussing this issue
14 both with Judge Barkdull and Commissioner Scott -- and
15 what they absolutely have in common is that same respect
16 for the public proposals. And so what we are trying to
17 figure out here collectively as a commission, how can we
18 give the respect to those public proposals they deserve.
19 And I think there is probably some merit in both of these.
20 We also know that we are going to be around a long
21 time in committees considering this, so what we might do,
22 Mr. Chairman, to respect these approaches for considering
23 is take at least a brief recess so we could look at
24 Commissioner Scott's list, discuss how procedurally we
25 might be able to do actually both, in some way, because
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1 both have some, have merit.
2 And I think that I have the sense of the commission,
3 we would like to give thorough, valid consideration to the
4 public so that we understand that, and the public
5 understands that we are going to fulfill the faith they
6 have placed in us. So I think that possibly five or ten
7 minutes to take a look at the list and then decide how we
8 might proceed procedurally to meet those purposes.
9 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. Before we go further,
10 I think most people are like me, I didn't get this until
11 just a few minutes ago. I haven't had a chance to look at
12 it. And I didn't really know about this, I thought we
13 were dealing with the rules committee, until this morning.
14 So I think it would be appropriate, certainly, if we
15 recessed for about ten minutes to give everybody an
16 opportunity to look this over and the rules committee
17 report, which had come to us yesterday. So I'll entertain
18 a motion by Judge Barkdull for a ten-minute recess.
19 COMMISSIONER BARKDULL: So moved.
20 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All in favor say aye.
21 (All respond affirmatively.)
22 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: We will recess for ten minutes
23 and we will be back in the chamber at 20 minutes until
24 10:00. Keep the chamber closed please. Secure the
25 chamber. It is 9:28, 20 minutes until. Incidentally,
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1 there is a shorter version of these public proposals in
2 the journal that is on your desk.
3 (Brief recess.)
4 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Commissioners, come to order. We
5 need to get going. All right. Commissioners, please take
6 your seats and we will start.
7 All right. We are now back in session. Commissioner
8 Barkdull?
9 COMMISSIONER BARKDULL: Chairman, please note I'd
10 like to speak in opposition to the motion.
11 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: You have that right. Do you have
12 something, Senator Scott?
13 COMMISSIONER SCOTT: I'm going to make a motion.
14 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Wait a minute, there is not a
15 motion.
16 COMMISSIONER BARKDULL: I thought he made the motion.
17 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: No, no, he did not; he did not.
18 So there is nothing to debate at this point. You said you
19 were going to move it.
20 Order please. Commissioner Evans-Jones.
21 COMMISSIONER EVANS-JONES: There is a motion on the
22 floor because I made that we accept the rules.
23 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: That is correct. That is the
24 motion that's on the floor. That is the motion that's on
25 the floor, that we accept the report of the rules
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1 committee. And, Judge Barkdull, you want to speak to
2 that?
3 COMMISSIONER BARKDULL: No, I want to speak in favor
4 of that, but it was my understanding Commissioner Scott
5 said he was going to propose this substitute or in lieu
6 thereof.
7 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Okay. Let's don't get too balled
8 up. Do you want to move that, Senator Scott -- excuse me,
9 Commissioner Scott?
10 COMMISSIONER SCOTT: I would like to move it,
11 Mr. Chairman, at the appropriate time. If the appropriate
12 time is now, then I would like to move that -- I would
13 make the motion.
14 COMMISSIONER MILLS: Mr. Chairman?
15 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Commissioner Mills.
16 COMMISSIONER MILLS: The way we could make some
17 progress here is to go ahead and vote in favor of the
18 report, right? Well you can vote in favor of the report
19 and then this motion really is aside from the report,
20 isn't it? I mean, it is a motion outside the report.
21 (Off-the-record comment.)
22 COMMISSIONER MILLS: Well, all I'm suggesting is that
23 you, if you move to accept the report then you have a
24 process set for consideration, then you could have --
25 because this motion, as drafted by Senator Scott, is to
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1 waive the rules. So it would supersede whatever you have.
2 The acceptance of the motion and the unanimous
3 support doesn't preclude Senator Scott from making a
4 motion to waive the rules. So therefore we could all
5 happily vote for the rules committee report, Senator Scott
6 could make his motion, and hypothetically someone could
7 move to defer consideration of that motion.
8 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: I think that's a correct
9 explanation. Before the commission is the report of the
10 rules committee on motion to approve it. If it is
11 approved, Senator Scott's motion would be in order as a
12 motion to waive the rules.
13 COMMISSIONER SCOTT: Mr. Chairman --
14 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Commissioner Scott. I have got
15 to remember you are Commissioner Scott.
16 COMMISSIONER SCOTT: I would move to amend the rules
17 committee report to provide that the following topics
18 outlined in this motion be referred to the committees and
19 the committees be allowed to develop committee proposals
20 to be filed with the secretary for consideration.
21 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Commissioner Scott, that requires
22 waiver of the rules. Committees cannot offer committee
23 proposals, they can only offer substantive proposals and
24 the proposals have to be introduced by a member. I'm not
25 sure it would be appropriate to amend this motion that
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1 way.
2 COMMISSIONER SCOTT: Let me get a little bit of
3 parliamentary help. I don't care about arguing the
4 parliamentary part. What I want to do, what I have tried
5 to do here is to get us some public proposals, from the
6 public proposals that would be committee proposals. And
7 I'm not trying to exclude anything. Everybody can still
8 file whatever.
9 So however it is appropriate to do that, and I
10 personally think, maybe the members, I understand some of
11 them may disagree, that if we are going to adopt this we
12 ought to adopt it so we know that these topics are going
13 to be taken up by the committees. Another idea was to
14 defer it.
15 Wherever it is appropriate to make this motion. It
16 could be a substitute motion, it is a majority vote,
17 right? If I make a substitute motion to adopt the report
18 with this --
19 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Not on the issue of the waiver of
20 the rules on the committee introducing proposals.
21 COMMISSIONER LANGLEY: Mr. Chairman, as a point of
22 order, I disagree with that, if I may. You are only
23 amending --
24 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Commissioner Langley, you are
25 recognized, sir. Your mic is on now.
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1 COMMISSIONER LANGLEY: Yes, sir. Commissioner
2 Douglass, Mr. Chairman, it would only take a majority to
3 amend the motion. Then it would take, if that motion is
4 amended in that it changed the rules, it would then take a
5 two thirds to pass the amended motion. But Mr. Scott's
6 motion would only take a majority.
7 All we are trying to do is -- you know, I counted, if
8 you didn't, there are 393 proposals so far. And we don't
9 have Ft. Myers, Daytona Beach, Tallahassee and some other
10 area in here, Tampa, yet. A lot of people went to a lot
11 of trouble and this is very dear and near to their hearts,
12 the proposals they make. You-all want to sit here and you
13 have got 20 proposals on whether or not to amend the age
14 and privacy. If you want to vote down 19 of them and
15 accept one, that's what we will be doing today if we go
16 through these item by item by item. Or do you want to
17 vote up all 20 of them? It is kind of ridiculous.
18 The way I think for the orderly process would be to
19 take up Senator Scott's motion and let any member here
20 amend that motion if, from your review of what's presented
21 to us, it is either improperly worded or not inclusive
22 enough to have the issue that you have interest in. And
23 then amend that motion to include all of those and I think
24 we will have a unanimous vote on the motion when it is
25 over.
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1 And then to the public who have worked these things
2 up and came and presented them to us, they are not
3 rejected. Look there is my proposal, it is embodied in
4 that motion and there it is in committee and I am going
5 somewhere with it. Rather than, golly, they vote I
6 couldn't get ten votes on my proposal.
7 So anyway I think, again, my point of rising,
8 Mr. Chairman, was to say procedurally we only need a
9 majority on Senator Scott's motion. And if that results
10 in a rule change, then that motion would need two thirds.
11 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Commissioner Barkdull.
12 COMMISSIONER BARKDULL: Mr. Chairman and members of
13 the commission, my problem with this is, this is not what
14 we told the public we were going to do. We told the
15 public that we were going out to hear what they had to say
16 because that's what we took an oath to do. That's what
17 the Constitution required us to do is have public
18 hearings.
19 We laid out in our rules, which has been public for
20 over 90 days, that when the commission met at the
21 conclusion of the public hearings, we were going to
22 consider each item that they brought up. And if one
23 member of the commission wanted to move further
24 consideration of that item, and he could get nine other
25 members of the commission to go along with the fact that
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1 one member of the commission wanted further consideration,
2 the matter would be continued further.
3 And that there would be -- there was nothing in our
4 rules that indicated that we were going to try to sit down
5 and be selective about which of the public issues we were
6 going to consider. We told them we were going to consider
7 all of them. We laid out in our rules specifically how we
8 were going to do it. And as this proposed motion says, it
9 is in lieu and "in lieu" means instead of what we told the
10 public. And that's why I oppose it. And I think we
11 should stand with the rule we adopted and go through and
12 consider the public items, item by item as we told the
13 public we were going to do.
14 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. Any further
15 discussion? Commissioner Wetherington.
16 COMMISSIONER WETHERINGTON: What's the Chair's view
17 on this issue? I don't see how --
18 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: My view is I, we have a rules
19 committee, it met, and they made this recommendation based
20 on the rules and on our previous commitments. And
21 obviously, as the Chair, I would support my committee.
22 COMMISSIONER WETHERINGTON: Well I don't understand
23 that Senator Scott's proposal is going to be an indication
24 that the commission is not going to be considering all the
25 proposals. So I don't read it that way at all.
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1 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: I'm not going to get into the
2 debate on what his proposal means. I'm just saying my
3 position as chairman is to support the rules committee,
4 which I think is appropriate. And the rules committee
5 report, if it is adopted, then other motions are
6 appropriate. Commissioner Mills?
7 COMMISSIONER MILLS: Well if I understand where we
8 are, I think the only motion that's been made, I think, is
9 the adoption of the rules committee report.
10 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: There has been a motion on the
11 floor to adopt the rules committee report and I think
12 Senator Scott wants to make a motion to amend that that
13 excludes waiver of the rules.
14 COMMISSIONER MILLS: If Senator Scott waited until
15 after the vote on this motion, then it would seem to me to
16 be just as timely. I understand it would require two
17 thirds. Senator Langley is saying that if you take it as
18 an amendment, it could be only a majority, but that if you
19 take it up after this, it would require two thirds. I
20 don't disagree with that.
21 But the substance of the motion requires a waiver
22 anyway. But I mean it is Senator Scott's motion.
23 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: I'm going to have to quit calling
24 them senators too, but they are commissioners. And I'll
25 try to not do that as well. Commissioner Barnett?
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1 COMMISSIONER BARNETT: Mr. Chairman, it seems to me
2 that senator, Commissioner Scott's proposal has a lot of
3 merit in terms of how we organize our work. And that the
4 real focus of his motion is to come to some orderly way to
5 address several hundred public proposals. And for that
6 reason, I like it. I think it's a rational approach to a
7 very daunting task.
8 On the other hand, I think that Commissioner Barkdull
9 is absolutely right in that we have made numerous
10 statements to the public that we will consider their
11 proposals. And the, what I would like to do is have an
12 opportunity today to review the public proposals that have
13 been presented and perhaps take up Senator Scott's motion
14 or his idea in whatever appropriate forum at the end of
15 the day after we have had a chance to look at the types of
16 items he has referred to in his listing.
17 I don't know what some of these mean. I don't know,
18 for example, whether -- we were just talking, Commissioner
19 Connor and I -- whether the reference to merit retention
20 also includes the election of judges. Some people would
21 say, yes, they do, but I don't know. I mean, they are
22 very different concepts. And I think it is important for
23 us to make sure we go through and have an opportunity to
24 give some consideration to these matters.
25 I don't see, for example, the net ban on here. Well
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1 perhaps the net ban is something that can't get ten votes,
2 but perhaps it can. We will not be able to say to the
3 public that the commission adequately considered an issue
4 that we heard enormous amounts of pointed and emotional
5 testimony.
6 And so before I could support this, I would like to
7 have some discussion of the issues. Let's amend, you
8 know, modify, expand, whatever this type of list and then
9 I think we might want to take the position that this is an
10 orderly way to conduct our business.
11 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Commissioner Nabors?
12 COMMISSIONER NABORS: Yeah, I don't want to add to
13 the load here, but the thing that I have been struggling
14 with, and it goes to what Commissioner Langley said, is
15 when we get to a proposal, for example, that has like 20
16 different permutations to it, under our rule, as I
17 understand them, if I move that then I am the sponsor of
18 that, and I have got the burden of carrying that proposal
19 through.
20 It seems to me that if you really boil this down,
21 there are 20 or so concepts embodied, or maybe more, in
22 this whole process, and maybe an answer would be if we get
23 to an area like valid access, rather than me having to
24 vote on a particular proposal, because that individual
25 made a particular proposal, not as it was wedded in stone,
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1 that a person could move the concept of valid access to
2 committee.
3 Then they wouldn't have the burden of having to
4 sponsor that, if it gets ten votes, it goes to committee,
5 committee takes it up. That way there is certainty about
6 what we do. And we can then run through a lot of these
7 proposals because they are all centered around the same
8 concept.
9 When we have meetings next week and the next week, if
10 it is a concept that's already been moved, there is
11 nothing wrong with taking public testimony on that concept
12 and it wouldn't necessitate another vote on a specific
13 proposal. That might be a middle ground. I'm very
14 sympathetic with both views, but it seems to me -- I have
15 an awkward time on voter initiative, like a statutory
16 initiative. Which one do I pick that I'm going to vote
17 on?
18 And if I pick it, that means I have got to carry the
19 load of that initiative. And it seems to me that what we
20 need to do is find what is the body of proposals that we
21 want to agree on. Because everybody can always file an
22 individual proposal on their own.
23 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Let me give you what I would rule
24 in that regard. As we go through these, if you get 11
25 votes on something like you are talking about, the subject
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1 matter, it will be referred to committee as a public
2 proposal. It would list whoever moved it as the sponsor
3 of the public proposal. It would not prevent that person
4 from opposing it or otherwise because my understanding
5 would be that the vote today on these, the 11 -- ten-vote
6 requirement, only moves it forward. It doesn't say you
7 are for it or against it either.
8 And if you don't vote for it, it doesn't say you are
9 against it. And I would rule that's the case. And so
10 whoever moved one of these public proposals would not be
11 vouching for that specific proposal, but the committee
12 then could consider all subject matters surrounding that
13 proposal. That would be the way I would interpret it.
14 Does the rules chair interpret it that way, too?
15 COMMISSIONER BARKDULL: No disagreement.
16 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. Commissioner
17 Evans-Jones.
18 COMMISSIONER EVANS-JONES: Mr. Chairman and members
19 of the commission, I feel very strongly that we have made
20 a commitment to the general public. We have said that we
21 are going to consider all of the proposals. All the
22 proposals are not listed in what Mr. Scott has presented.
23 I understand that he has said we can add to, and I think
24 that we should.
25 The other problem that I have is going straight to
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1 committee. There may be people who would like to sponsor
2 the concept, the public concept, and can get those ten
3 votes that would not be a member of the committee that it
4 is referred to. And I think that that would bring
5 additional debate, conversation and so forth to that
6 committee if you are really very, very interested in that
7 particular public proposal.
8 I do think that this is an arduous process and I
9 recognize that. But I think that since we said that we
10 are going to consider every single proposal that has been
11 sent to us, that we have an obligation to do just that.
12 And I recognize that it is time consuming, but I think
13 once you have made a commitment, and we have said this
14 from the very beginning, that it really is, you know,
15 going back on what we have committed to do. And I don't
16 think we should do that.
17 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. Commissioner Langley?
18 COMMISSIONER LANGLEY: Mr. Chairman and body, it
19 isn't only time consuming, Commissioner Evans-Jones, it is
20 staff consuming. So are we going to vote, as Commissioner
21 Nabors said, are we going to vote for all 20 ballot access
22 proposals because is any one better than the other?
23 Then according to these rules, all proposals
24 receiving that will advance to bill drafting, receive a
25 number and be referred to committee. So now we are going
24
1 to have 20 bills in that committee, proposals, all on
2 valid access? All we are trying to do -- and, again, we
3 can consider any public proposal here that is not included
4 in this abbreviated motion. But you don't want bill
5 drafting to be sitting there drafting 20 proposals on
6 ballot access or we will never get our work done.
7 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Commissioner Riley?
8 COMMISSIONER RILEY: Mr. Chairman, in the interest of
9 time, we have spent an hour deciding how we are not going
10 to do it. I feel that more is better at this point and I
11 would strongly suggest that we move the rules of the
12 committee and that we use Commissioner Scott's list as we
13 go through that and vote on them not by individual
14 proposals, but as, by issues. And that issue can be for
15 and against the same issue. And that we just vote that on
16 to the committee and that we get on with it.
17 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. I think it needs to
18 be made clear that any commissioner at any time can
19 introduce a proposal, number one.
20 Number two, the fact that it doesn't get ten votes
21 doesn't mean it is not being considered. The specific
22 proposal might not be, but if there is one that embodies
23 the subject matter, the committee can consider the entire
24 subject.
25 Commissioner Sundberg.
25
1 COMMISSIONER SUNDBERG: Mr. Chairman, I sense we are
2 really sort of talking about two different things and I
3 think perhaps Commissioner Riley has put her finger on it.
4 So if I may to the rules chairman address a question.
5 Commissioner Barkdull, do you perceive that -- and I join
6 those who say that we have an obligation to consider each
7 of the proposals that have been put forward by the public.
8 The question is, when we then move to consider those
9 proposals, as has been stated numerous times here, there
10 are shaded permutations of the same issue that have been
11 present, eight, ten, 12 different times. Are we going to
12 have to vote each of those issues up or down, or will we
13 be in a position to say, that fits within the rubric of
14 election reform and that we then may vote it up or down,
15 you know, depending on how that particular motion is
16 amended? So that we don't have to vote precisely on each
17 proposal so long as that proposal is embodied in a larger
18 aggregation of that issue.
19 COMMISSIONER BARKDULL: Was that a question or a
20 statement?
21 COMMISSIONER SUNDBERG: That was a very comprehensive
22 statement.
23 COMMISSIONER BARKDULL: It is my understanding that
24 if the subject of elections were referred to a committee,
25 by receiving the necessary ten votes, that the committee
26
1 under the rules has the opportunity to present a
2 substitute on the same subject matter.
3 COMMISSIONER SUNDBERG: Obviously my question was too
4 comprehensive. I'm not talking about what the committee
5 does with it. I'm talking about as we move forward today,
6 let's assume that there are seven different proposals
7 which are, as I say, shaded gradations of a particular
8 issue.
9 Merit retention, and so long as we are satisfied that
10 it leaves open the question, should all judges be elected,
11 should all judges be subject to merit selection and merit
12 retention or some part of it, so long as we are all
13 satisfied that the issue is framed to be comprehensive
14 enough, may we vote on it in that fashion without going
15 through, as Commissioner Langley indicated, and say, well,
16 there were nine proposals for election of judges, there
17 were 12 for merit retention and we have to address each
18 one of them.
19 Or may we package them, so to speak, as a group here
20 and send it to committee, do it in that comprehensive
21 fashion.
22 COMMISSIONER BARKDULL: I think if we voted, say, to
23 take up merit retention and it went to a committee, and
24 obviously merit retention is contrary to election. And
25 the committee would have the right, after merit retention
27
1 had been forwarded to them, to determine whether they were
2 going to submit that back out to the body or whether they
3 were going to offer a substitute for it. But the next
4 step on the line is committee consideration.
5 And I don't think that the rules limit, once the
6 subject matter is in the committee, as to what the
7 committee can do with it.
8 COMMISSIONER SUNDBERG: I agree with that. My
9 question goes to how we must package it when we send it to
10 committee.
11 COMMISSIONER BARKDULL: As I said, Commissioner
12 Sundberg, if you send merit retention to a committee, the
13 method of merit retention, which presumes that we would
14 not have election, would take both issues up before the
15 committee, in any form that the committee determined to
16 bring it out.
17 COMMISSIONER RILEY: Commissioner Barkdull, may I ask
18 a question?
19 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Commissioner Riley?
20 COMMISSIONER RILEY: I'd like to ask a question
21 following that. Does that mean, does that preclude then a
22 commissioner, when you come to an article that has within
23 that section seven different proposals, could you not
24 then, some of them being for and some of them being
25 against, could you not as a commissioner make a motion to
28
1 pass through all of the proposals in which case what you
2 are saying doesn't say that, but in fact in action we
3 could do it that way and that would answer Commissioner
4 Sundberg's --
5 COMMISSIONER BARKDULL: If that's what are listed
6 under the section.
7 COMMISSIONER RILEY: So, in fact, we would move
8 forward the whole issue and all of its permutations.
9 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Let me just interrupt and say
10 that the rules committee report does not require the
11 consideration of every single item on here. What it
12 requires under the rules committee report is for somebody
13 to move it forward. And that doesn't mean you are for or
14 against it, you are not voting it up or down, as I
15 understand the rules committee report.
16 So we will not -- we will be considering them by
17 article. And if nobody moves one, two or whatever, we
18 will move to the next article. But so failure for
19 somebody to move in effect eliminates any votes on that
20 particular item. If somebody wants to move the particular
21 item or items, one at a time they can, under the rules
22 committee report.
23 But in no instance is the person moving it deemed to
24 be necessarily supporting it. He is doing it for the
25 purpose of fulfilling what we said we would do to the
29
1 public. Commissioner Mills.
2 COMMISSIONER MILLS: Mr. Chairman, first I think it
3 is worth saying that to understand why we are spending
4 time doing this is I think everybody wants to have full
5 and fair public consideration and the public needs to
6 understand that. Doing this up front and having this
7 conversation uniformly is true in the chamber, everybody
8 is trying to do the best thing to enhance public
9 consideration.
10 Having said that, based on the Chair's ruling which
11 says that you can make a motion to consider issues
12 collectively, and it wouldn't necessarily be a member
13 issue; is that correct? I think Commissioner Riley's idea
14 also makes sense that you are trying to consolidate
15 different ideas under a given motion, thereby giving
16 comprehensive consideration to a number of public ideas.
17 So if I was one of the ten people that suggested
18 election reform, if election reform is referred to the
19 election committee, I know I can go to that committee and
20 discuss my idea. Because election reform has been
21 preserved as a public idea. And irrespective of whether
22 any particular language is drafted at this moment, it will
23 be able to be considered, whether it is parental consent
24 or different issues, that those issues will be preserved.
25 Senator Scott has a list of issues and I understand
30
1 one option would be actually for Senator Scott or someone
2 to make a motion on each of Senator Scott's topics, or for
3 that to be viewed as a list of topics. And if each one of
4 those got ten votes, at the beginning of that article,
5 that would in effect accomplish the same thing; would it
6 not?
7 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: That's correct.
8 COMMISSIONER MILLS: And to procedurally get us to
9 that point, if someone wanted to offer a substitute motion
10 to do that, I don't believe that's inconsistent with the
11 rules. It is consistent with the rules as described by
12 the rules chairman, as interpreted by the Chair.
13 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Nothing would prevent somebody
14 from moving a particular item at any time. I think it
15 would result in that. Commissioner Scott, you wanted to
16 be recognized?
17 COMMISSIONER SCOTT: Well as I understand, that's
18 fine. I mean, when we get to Article I there is these
19 suggestions and, you know, we bring them up and we don't
20 have to get into two thirds or whatever.
21 I just want to make one point and that is, this is
22 not in lieu of, Judge Barkdull. I want to make that
23 point. This is not in lieu of the opportunity of going
24 through every article, if this motion was adopted. But to
25 do it that way is fine with me.
31
1 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Commissioner Anthony.
2 COMMISSIONER ANTHONY: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
3 Given that comment by Commissioner Scott, I'd like to move
4 to call the question on the motion. Oh, we don't have
5 that. I'm sorry.
6 SECRETARY BLANTON: We just moved the adoption of the
7 committee report.
8 COMMISSIONER ANTHONY: I'd like to move the adoption
9 of the committee report. Given that we have spent an hour
10 discussing, why don't we try to get into some action?
11 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Commissioner Ford-Coates was next
12 and then, Commissioner Zack, you will follow.
13 COMMISSIONER FORD-COATES: I'd just like to get a
14 clarification on what I think we are talking about,
15 modifying our process of what happens when it gets to
16 committee.
17 As we originally adopted the rules before we went
18 through the public hearing and really had a chance to
19 listen to what people were saying and have a real concept
20 of what we were, of the magnitude of issues with which we
21 would be dealing, the original concept was that staff
22 would draft a proposal that goes to committee.
23 If we are moving ideas and larger issues then, are we
24 not saying that it is going to be more a process of
25 discovery, or whatever the right term would be, of
32
1 research of what proposals that committee would like to
2 see, the specifics of those, therefore staff would not be
3 drafting umpteen proposals. I think we need to clarify
4 that, because we do have a limited staff, to make sure
5 that we understand how we would be operating.
6 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. Commissioner Zack.
7 COMMISSIONER ZACK: First of all, I have a minor
8 housekeeping matter before the report is actually adopted.
9 In talking to various commissioners during the recess, it
10 was felt that since our next meeting is going to begin on
11 a Monday morning, that we could begin at 9:00 a.m. on
12 Monday, come in Sunday evening, and work late the Monday,
13 Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday and therefore be able to
14 adjourn on Thursday evening. And it was felt that for
15 everyone's scheduling purposes that might be an
16 improvement as to doing it during the five days presently
17 scheduled.
18 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. I think we could take
19 that up after we get this matter resolved and the rules
20 committee might consider that.
21 Commissioner Connor, you wanted to be recognized.
22 COMMISSIONER ZACK: That was just the first thing.
23 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Excuse me, he is not through.
24 COMMISSIONER ZACK: That was just a minor matter that
25 needs to be addressed before the report is actually
33
1 adopted. But I do think it is extremely important that it
2 is clear to the public that not only are each -- not only
3 will each matter be considered by each member of this
4 commission, but as you pointed out and has been pointed
5 out repeatedly, every single commissioner has the right to
6 put this on at any time. So you have every one of us
7 continuing to consider it all the way until November 25,
8 which I believe is the deadline when any one of us can
9 raise any of these 300-plus public issues at any time.
10 So this is a continuing process. And whatever we do
11 here today should not be perceived as closing the door on
12 any of these public proposals.
13 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Now Commissioner Connor.
14 COMMISSIONER CONNOR: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And
15 part of my question involves who decides the issue. For
16 example, concerns that I had raised in my discussion with
17 Senator Scott was whether or not the way in which it is
18 framed, right of privacy versus parental authority, is
19 broad enough to include expanded protection for unborn
20 children without regard to the issue of parental consent,
21 and whether or not the issue of merit retention, as
22 framed, is broad enough to raise the issue as to whether
23 or not all judges should be required to be elected.
24 Now my question is ultimately who decides, by when do
25 we know the effect of the ruling. Because I think what
34
1 most of us are concerned about is whether or not there is
2 a drop dead date after which we may not be permitted to
3 come forward with a proposal that we thought was
4 adequately covered by the way in which it was framed, only
5 to discover by someone's ruling, I know not whom at this
6 point, they decide that it is not fairly embraced within
7 the language that was adopted.
8 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: The drop dead date under the
9 proposal of the rules committee is November 25.
10 Commissioner Scott.
11 COMMISSIONER SCOTT: Mr. Chairman, in further answer,
12 if we are going with the procedure we seem to have a
13 consensus on that Commissioner Mills has proposed, when
14 that item comes up, you can move appropriate amendment
15 language, whatever you want, to make sure what it covers.
16 (Off-the-record comment.)
17 COMMISSIONER SCOTT: No, it would be today as we get
18 to that item. If you, you know -- and further, as we
19 discussed, we have the right to introduce a member's
20 proposal at any time. So, Mr. Chairman, I think we kind
21 of narrowed in here on a procedure that we would go
22 through, look at these items --
23 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: We have some others that want to
24 speak and I don't want to cut them off.
25 Commissioner Barkdull, will you yield to Commissioner
35
1 Freidin?
2 COMMISSIONER FREIDIN: With regard to the rest of the
3 committee's report, the deadline for public proposals that
4 the committee recommends is October 6, 1997. It is kind
5 of down at the end of the committee report. I don't know
6 if anybody got that far. It seems to me that that is
7 about a week from now. By the time that word gets out to
8 the public, it is going to be only a matter of days. And
9 it seems to me like that's a little short and I would like
10 to see that lengthened. I'd like to hear what the
11 committee's thinking was on why it needed to be that
12 quickly.
13 COMMISSIONER BARKDULL: The committee's thinking was
14 that it has been open for the public to submit things in
15 writing, and that's what we are talking about, since the
16 commission was organized in June. We are going to be up
17 here -- as it turns out now, we are going to be up here
18 two weeks later. When we originally picked that date, we
19 were scheduled to be up here a week later.
20 And we were trying to get all the matters that will
21 be considered by the commission that the public proposed
22 where we had to exercise discretion on the ten-day vote,
23 where we would take them all up at the next meeting.
24 I would certainly not object, now that we have moved
25 to the 20th as being the time we are going to come back up
36
1 here, move it to the 13th. But I don't think it ought to
2 be moved any further up than that because we have got to
3 give staff an opportunity to incorporate it in our
4 materials which we would take up. But I think it would be
5 no problem in accepting an amendment at the appropriate
6 time moving that date from the 6th to the 13th.
7 COMMISSIONER FREIDIN: I don't know when the
8 appropriate time would be.
9 COMMISSIONER BARKDULL: Well, when we get through
10 with this motion.
11 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Let me say -- excuse me,
12 Commissioner Barnett. Would you yield to Commissioner
13 Barnett?
14 COMMISSIONER BARNETT: No, this is a question of
15 Commissioner Scott.
16 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right.
17 COMMISSIONER BARNETT: On the last discussion you had
18 with Commissioner Connor about taking the list and
19 amending it, on a motion of any commissioner, the concern
20 is that currently under our rules ten members of the
21 commission can sponsor a public proposal and it will be
22 considered by committee.
23 If you have to amend your motion, that requires a
24 majority vote. And so have we put people in a situation
25 who may want to amend this listing so that they have to
37
1 get a majority?
2 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Let me clarify. I think I know
3 what you have in mind, Commissioner Scott. If you adopt
4 these one by one, we are still going to go through these
5 section by section like they are in the calendar as we
6 noticed. And at that point, Commissioner Connor, the one
7 that you want to pick, you can move it. And it is already
8 there in the specific form. It will go to the committee.
9 And we are going to do that regardless of how we go
10 anyway. So that might answer some of the objections,
11 Commissioner Scott.
12 COMMISSIONER BARNETT: So the answer, Mr. Chairman,
13 is that we would not be amending Commissioner Mills' or
14 Commissioner Scott's motion requiring a majority vote, but
15 if you want to add an item it is ten votes --
16 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: I understood what he was
17 proposing now that we go through your list and if they get
18 ten votes, that they be referred to committee as a public
19 proposal. Like Article I, access to the courts regardless
20 of age, show of hands. If it gets ten votes, it goes to
21 committee. Then we go right down his list.
22 Then we revert to our order, which is to take this
23 calendar right here and I'll say, all right, we are going
24 to take up Article I, declaration of rights. Does anybody
25 move for any of the public proposals? If so, be
38
1 recognized and we will take a vote. If it gets ten votes,
2 that will go to committee too.
3 I think that would answer the objections that
4 Commissioner Connor was raising and I think you are
5 amenable to that; are you not?
6 COMMISSIONER SCOTT: Yes, Mr. Chairman. And at this
7 point I would join, if amendment is necessary as proposed
8 by Commissioner Mills, that we go ahead with the report
9 subject to the date change that Commissioner Freidin --
10 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: I haven't even seen Commissioner
11 Evans standing over here very patiently and she wants to
12 speak. So I don't want you to not get to speak.
13 Commissioner Evans.
14 COMMISSIONER EVANS: It is a housekeeping question
15 having nothing to do with Commissioners Scott and Mills so
16 I'm perfectly willing to wait as long as you don't forget
17 me before a vote is taken.
18 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Let's wait and make a note and
19 make sure I recognize you when we are through.
20 Commissioner Barkdull, with what I outlined, if a
21 motion is made to that effect, would that meet the
22 commitment we made to the public that we are going to
23 consider each one of these?
24 COMMISSIONER BARKDULL: In my view it would not,
25 Mr. Chairman. And all I can do, Commissioner Scott, is to
39
1 say I read what you say, I move that in lieu of a separate
2 motion on each issue submitted by the public --
3 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: But he is changing that.
4 COMMISSIONER BARKDULL: Well, that was not what I
5 understood a few minutes ago.
6 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Wait a minute, let me go back to
7 Commissioner Mills who made a suggestion, in effect, that
8 I think Commissioner Scott was agreeable with. He changed
9 that. He is not making it in the form of a motion to do
10 that.
11 Commissioner Mills, would you like to attempt to make
12 what would be the motion?
13 COMMISSIONER MILLS: Let me try one more time.
14 COMMISSIONER BARKDULL: That's not what we agreed to
15 do.
16 COMMISSIONER MILLS: This is why it would be what we
17 agreed to do. It actually would be possible at this point
18 to accept the motion of the rules committee to go through
19 each article separately -- this is slightly different than
20 what you described.
21 But go ahead and start with Article I, go through
22 Article I, take up the Scott concepts in Article I, then
23 go through the Barkdull report in Article I by detail so
24 we would know what we did in Article I. And that means we
25 will have done everything.
40
1 We will have fulfilled the idea of trying to
2 organize, which is as I understand Senator Scott's
3 principal thrust, and we will have fulfilled our
4 commitment to the public specifically because we will go
5 through every single proposal in Article I at the same
6 time we try to organize it by concept. And I'm not sure
7 we even need a motion to do that. If you want one, I'll
8 be glad to make it.
9 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Commissioner Evans-Jones, you are
10 on the rules committee, does that -- what is your response
11 to that, or what they are suggesting now?
12 Which is, again, let me explain the way I understand
13 it. Let me see if we are all on the same page. We are
14 going to -- if we adopt the rules committee report, we
15 will then have a motion, or whatever, by Commissioner
16 Scott that will successively and he can do it one by one,
17 or somebody can, vote on the 11, on the concepts that he
18 has got in each one of his proposals.
19 And at that point, when we finish that, we will
20 revert to the consideration of all of the public
21 proposals. And what I was planning to do anyway was to
22 say, we are on Article I, declaration of rights. Does any
23 commissioner move a public proposal under that article?
24 And then Commissioner Connor could move the specific
25 one that he wants to move, or two, and we would take a
41
1 show of hands vote. Reminding you that when you vote to
2 consider these, it doesn't mean you are for them, it means
3 you are willing to have them considered.
4 Am I right on the way I am interpreting this,
5 Commissioner Scott? We could even do yours at the end,
6 but it would be simpler I think to do it in the beginning.
7 COMMISSIONER EVANS-JONES: Mr. Chairman, it seems to
8 me that that would be an appropriate way to do it because
9 every commissioner would then have an opportunity to move
10 something within that specific article if he or she wants
11 to.
12 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. Commissioner
13 Barkdull? Or, excuse me, Commissioner Smith, do you want
14 to speak first? Would you yield or --
15 COMMISSIONER BARKDULL: I yield to Commissioner
16 Smith.
17 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Well although we have taken an
18 hour and 23 minutes, I think this has been a very
19 important discussion we have had because this is the
20 people's constitution. As we all know, we made a
21 commitment to the public to consider every proposal and I
22 think now we have a way that we can consider all the
23 proposals.
24 The most important thing that I have heard is the
25 fact that we can aggregate the various proposals. Because
42
1 if I were a member of an organization that spent four or
2 five meetings trying to come up with a particular
3 proposal, and I got three minutes in Tampa to speak, and
4 the subject matter of those proposals was just, because it
5 got nine votes was just knocked out, I would really have a
6 serious problem with that.
7 Now I think with the discussion of the rules
8 committee and with the discussion of this process, I
9 really believe we have a procedure now where we can meet
10 our commitment to discuss every proposal and yet not have
11 to reject, for instance, the issue of merit selection
12 versus judges. Opt in or opt out, straight merit
13 selection, or election. I mean, we can have that
14 aggregate issue submitted to the Article V committee and
15 deal with it and everybody will understand that we have
16 considered those proposals.
17 And then we can work out the details with the
18 specifically-drafted rule or constitutional change, and
19 with that, I have really benefited from this discussion
20 and I think we can move forward now and keep our
21 commitments.
22 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Commissioner Scott?
23 COMMISSIONER SCOTT: Talking with the secretary, so
24 that we are clear, we are now not into having committee
25 proposals as such. What we are saying is these subject
43
1 matters will be actual proposals that would go to the
2 committee as a concept and then will be dealt with as a
3 proposal.
4 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: That's correct. It wouldn't be a
5 waiver of the rules, and it would go on the record this
6 way: You take each one of these, we will vote on each
7 one, you will be listed as the person who sponsored the
8 public proposal concept of, and then if you get 11 votes
9 on those, or if we get 11 votes on those, ten, it will go
10 forward in that fashion to the committee. And it will not
11 be a committee proposal when it comes out.
12 At the same time, when we go through the rest of
13 them, we will have specific proposals available on those
14 same concepts which will go to the committee. And they
15 will be considered and the public will, public proposal
16 will be considered as a public proposal as well.
17 So that that way, we get in a way -- I'm glad we had
18 this discussion, because what Commissioner Scott has done
19 is made sure we get all the concepts up there but we also
20 get the specific proposals up there, which is what is
21 troubling a lot of commissioners and which I think was
22 basically troubling Commissioner Barkdull. I'm not
23 overruling the chair of the rules committee. I trust that
24 maybe we have reached a point here where we are all happy
25 and willing to go have a cup of coffee.
44
1 Commissioner Alfonso?
2 COMMISSIONER ALFONSO: Do we need a motion to
3 proceed?
4 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: I think that's what we are trying
5 to do. Let me say what I would call for. First, I would
6 call for a vote to adopt the rules committee. Then I
7 would recognize Commissioner Scott as the first person and
8 he would go through his list one at a time and we will see
9 if they get ten votes.
10 When we finish that list, we will take up the
11 calendar and we will start with Article I, declaration of
12 rights, the ones that are listed there specifically, and
13 you will have an opportunity to move specific ones.
14 And if they get ten votes, they will go to committee.
15 And if I was voting, I can assure you that I would vote
16 for several of these specific ones even though I oppose
17 them because I think they should be considered and we had
18 public participation asking for them. And I think that's
19 what's troubling you; wasn't it, Commissioner Connor?
20 COMMISSIONER CONNOR: Yes, sir.
21 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. I am going to ask you
22 to withdraw your amendment -- well, no, all right. I
23 guess before we vote, if we sort of have a consensus on
24 that, then I'll move to Commissioner Zack's and Freidin's
25 and Evans had one too she wanted that would be
45
1 housekeeping.
2 How do you want to proceed, Mr. Chairman?
3 COMMISSIONER BARKDULL: I want to know what
4 Commissioner Scott is going to do with his motion. Is he
5 going it withdraw it or is he going to leave it up for
6 consideration?
7 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: I think we have an understanding
8 that he can withdraw it and bring it up after the report.
9 Is that agreeable to everybody?
10 COMMISSIONER SCOTT: Well it is my understanding that
11 we were going to go with it as a part of this report that
12 these items would be considered --
13 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: We'll treat it however you want
14 to. Commissioner Mills, you made the definitive motion
15 here.
16 COMMISSIONER MILLS: Mr. Chairman, as I understand,
17 he can withdraw his motion to amend and as we go through
18 the report, which is to take up Article I, in Article I we
19 can take up Commissioner Scott's list.
20 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: I will do that if that is --
21 COMMISSIONER MILLS: I don't think you need to do
22 anything procedurally other than to vote for the report.
23 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Commissioner Barnett.
24 COMMISSIONER BARNETT: This is a point of
25 clarification, Mr. Chairman. Let's assume we go through
46
1 the various proposals that have been submitted by the
2 public and they do not receive ten votes, does that mean
3 that, but the broad category, a broad category does, is
4 adopted by the commission, does that mean that those
5 proposals that received ten votes can be taken up by the
6 committee? I'm not talking about individual members
7 filing that, but by the committee, or are the committees
8 in that prohibited since it didn't receive the commission
9 votes?
10 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: They are not prohibited, but the
11 committees can operate to come up with substitute
12 proposals from any one of these including the concept or
13 otherwise. But under the rules they cannot offer a
14 committee proposal. And to do otherwise would defeat our
15 open requirement, why these rules are so different.
16 So I would rule that if one of the concepts is
17 referred to the committee, that does not preclude
18 consideration of any specific language relating to that
19 concept, as by the committee. By the same token, any
20 specific language that's proposed as a public proposal
21 will be written as a proposal and will have to be
22 considered on the specific language.
23 Now I think that's the way it would operate,
24 Commissioner Barnett. And I believe that would be in
25 keeping with our commitment to the public.
47
1 COMMISSIONER BARNETT: The question really is what if
2 it is rejected by the commission, there is not enough --
3 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: What, the concept?
4 COMMISSIONER BARNETT: The concept is rejected by the
5 commission.
6 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It wouldn't prevent the
7 individuals from receiving 11 votes, the individual
8 proposals. Or a commissioner can get up and file --
9 COMMISSIONER BARNETT: I'm not talking about a
10 commissioner filing it. And I'm assuming that the
11 category concept of merit retention is referred to
12 committee, the committee. What happens if specifics under
13 that have not received the ten votes, can the committee
14 then when they take it up, are they precluded then from
15 considering items that this commission, that have not
16 received sufficient votes in this commission and have not
17 been sponsored by a member?
18 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: No, they are not precluded from
19 considering anything in the whole world. It is kind of
20 like a judge wrote in a dissenting opinion one time, the
21 court would consider the Sears Roebuck catalog if it was
22 filed in a brief. And that's sort of the way committees
23 have to operate, as they do in the Legislature. Whatever
24 comes before that committee is going to be considered.
25 Commissioner Riley.
48
1 COMMISSIONER RILEY: Mr. Chairman, in reference to
2 Commissioner Barnett's question I would encourage
3 commissioners who make the initial proposal to include
4 within that motion the pro, cons and anything that has to
5 do with that issue. All within -- can they not do that?
6 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It would be out of order. You
7 can do that in committee. You just pass on the issue
8 that's before us. If you start pro and conning, you can
9 do that later before the committee.
10 COMMISSIONER RILEY: So if you have one issue that
11 has pros and cons within that article, you would have to
12 make two separate issues.
13 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: I think everybody is
14 misunderstanding this. If we go through and do these
15 concepts -- all right, let's take this one, access to the
16 courts regardless of age, it gets ten votes. It is going
17 to be referred in that fashion to the committee. All
18 right.
19 Then you come over here and there is one that has
20 specific language even that does the same thing. It can
21 be sent as well. Or if that one loses, access to the
22 courts regardless of age, doesn't get ten votes, the
23 specific item, when we go through that, if it does get ten
24 votes, will go to the committee. If any commissioner
25 still wants to introduce it, they can do it before the
49
1 drop dead date and it will go to the committee.
2 So there is no way that I conceive, and I think this
3 is in keeping with Commissioner Scott's real proposal,
4 that we do in fact consider these. And then it meets
5 Commissioner Smith's very eloquent explanation that we are
6 going to take care of these people that came and gave us
7 these specific proposals by having the opportunity to move
8 them forward. Is that a fair summary, Commissioner Scott?
9 COMMISSIONER SCOTT: (Nods affirmatively.)
10 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Commissioner Barkdull.
11 COMMISSIONER BARKDULL: Mr. Chairman, it appears that
12 we are on the motion of Commissioner Evans-Jones to
13 approve the report of the rules committee. There has been
14 a motion by Senator Scott, as I understand it, to amend
15 that.
16 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: He withdrew it.
17 COMMISSIONER BARKDULL: The explanation -- has it
18 been withdrawn?
19 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Yes, sir.
20 COMMISSIONER BARKDULL: Then it is open for amendment
21 as proposed by Commissioner Freidin. And Commissioner
22 Evans has something she wants to propose probably, I don't
23 know what it is, but something relating to the report.
24 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Let's get straight here. I don't
25 want us to get mixed up any more than we have. I sense
50
1 that we have a consensus, we are going to go with my last
2 explanation. I don't think we need a vote on that. The
3 rules committee stays where it is.
4 Then there is specific items that Commissioner Zack
5 had on a date, Commissioner Evans has something similar,
6 Commissioner Freidin has something similar. So now -- he
7 has withdrawn his motion and there will be no
8 double-crosses on this. I understand that. If there is
9 there will be guns fired from the rostrum.
10 (Laughter.)
11 COMMISSIONER BARKDULL: Mr. Chairman --
12 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Have you got one too?
13 COMMISSIONER BARKDULL: No, if I could state, and I
14 think we may save some time, that the rules committee will
15 accept, unless somebody indicates an objection here on the
16 floor, what has been suggested by Commissioner Zack that
17 we start at 9:00 rather than noon on that date. And if
18 that, no objection on that, and we change the deadline
19 date that Commissioner Freidin wants from the 6th to the
20 13th.
21 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Now we will hear from
22 Commissioner Evans.
23 COMMISSIONER BARKDULL: Now we will hear what
24 Commissioner Evans wants.
25 COMMISSIONER EVANS: Okay. My concern is the Sunday
51
1 meetings. And in particular, the one meeting that leads
2 into, that includes activities that lead into Holy Week.
3 And that's the March 29th probable meeting. My concern is
4 do I, if the committee votes, and there is some kind of
5 vote on that day, do I have to choose between my prior
6 commitment to the service to my church, and my commitment
7 to the state?
8 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: I'll tell you what, we are not
9 going to have any meetings on Easter.
10 COMMISSIONER EVANS: No, that's not Easter, that's
11 two weeks prior but it includes First Communion, which
12 leads into Holy Week.
13 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: I don't want to interfere with
14 anybody's religious activities. In fact, we originally
15 had something set that was in a High Holy holiday for the
16 Jewish religion and we changed that when it was called to
17 my attention by one of the commissioners who had to be
18 somewhere by 6:00 or whatever on Friday afternoon. And we
19 will accommodate the religious situation as it is raised.
20 And that is a probable that's listed on there and I can
21 tell you now that if just won't happen.
22 COMMISSIONER EVANS: Okay, thank you.
23 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Commissioner Scott.
24 COMMISSIONER SCOTT: On that point, we discussed this
25 yesterday. The schedule of what we do regarding, for
52
1 example, public hearings, whether we have any or how many
2 and all of that is still subject to discussion and debate.
3 What we are doing here basically is fixing our schedule
4 for the next few months.
5 But I want to assure you that this still has on it,
6 for example, that we will meet the weekend that the
7 legislative session is over. And that's not going to
8 happen. The Senate president said that that's not going
9 to happen because the staff will be almost half dead by
10 then.
11 SECRETARY BLANTON: Maybe dead.
12 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Actually the calendar from
13 January on is probable. Commissioner Barkdull.
14 COMMISSIONER BARKDULL: That's a correct explanation
15 of it. It is not set in cement. It is just so people
16 have an opportunity to mark their calendars off and we
17 will work on the dates as we get closer to them.
18 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: The amendment that you offered on
19 Commissioner Zack is that, or accepted, is that we meet on
20 October the 20th at 9:00 a.m., we convene here. And we
21 will end at the close of business on October 23rd, or
22 whenever we end that week; is that right?
23 COMMISSIONER ZACK: That's correct.
24 Mr. Chairman, I'd like to conform the rest of the
25 schedule to the same kind of principles we just talked
53
1 about where we come in the night before. What you have us
2 doing is starting at 1:00 and ending at 1:00 and turning
3 into a three-day meeting what could easily be a two-day
4 meeting, if we started at 9:00 a.m., come in the night
5 before, work late that night and then finish late if
6 necessary the second day. And I think that would resolve
7 many issues for many people in this chamber and still
8 allow us to do the work effectively.
9 And what I mean specifically is we come in the night
10 of the 11th, start at 9:00 a.m. on the 12th, work late on
11 the 12th, and finish on the 13th.
12 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: The simple way to handle that,
13 those are committee meetings. And the session meeting
14 will be on the 13th and 14th. So I think we could safely
15 say that the committee meetings could be at the call of
16 the chair of the committee on that date.
17 COMMISSIONER ZACK: So these can be changed by the
18 committee without this group taking action.
19 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Correct.
20 COMMISSIONER ZACK: And you raise a good point
21 because we have two groups of committees. And if we are
22 going to have both of them meeting on the same day, they
23 are going to have to meet in the morning and the afternoon
24 in order probably to accomplish that. So with that
25 amendment -- it's part of your amendment; is that correct?
54
1 COMMISSIONER BARKDULL: I'll accept that we come in
2 at 9:00 as he indicates, but I don't want to cut a day off
3 at this time. If we happen to get through, fine, but I
4 don't want to cut the days off because --
5 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: This wouldn't because there is a
6 commission meeting scheduled the next morning and the next
7 day.
8 COMMISSIONER BARKDULL: I understand what you are
9 saying, Mr. Chairman, but I want the commissioners to
10 understand that we have got to spend some time on these
11 items and we need to have your calendars blocked out
12 because we might not get through. And I don't mind coming
13 earlier or any day, but I don't want to take a day off the
14 back at this point.
15 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: One thing about it, we can change
16 the next meeting with a two thirds vote if we want to.
17 Now where are we?
18 COMMISSIONER BARKDULL: Evans-Jones' motion to
19 approve the report as amended.
20 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. All in favor say aye.
21 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
22 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Opposed?
23 (No response.)
24 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It carries. Now senator --
25 excuse me, I'm going to make you a commissioner yet,
55
1 Commissioner Mathis.
2 COMMISSIONER MATHIS: I have one clarification about
3 the calendar that's just a matter of housekeeping.
4 Although Commissioner Henderson might want us to think
5 that the FAMU-Bethune Cookman game is in Daytona Beach, it
6 is not, it is in Orlando, Florida.
7 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: And Disney is helping out I read
8 somewhere, too. That's going to be a great weekend for
9 people in Orlando. All right. I'm ready to get going
10 here if everybody else is.
11 Commissioner Nabors, not on the same subject I hope.
12 COMMISSIONER NABORS: Bear with me one second, I'm a
13 little slow. I want to make sure I understand, I'm very
14 comfortable with where we are, but let me give you an
15 example. Let's say that Mr. Scott, the access to the
16 courts regardless of age is presented and gets 20 votes,
17 and then there is no individual member proposal on that
18 and no specific proposal moved, that means that concept
19 will be drafted as a concept by staff and working that
20 committee; is that right?
21 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: We will work that out, but that's
22 basically correct. And then we will see what specific
23 proposals get the necessary votes, too. Because that will
24 enter into what we need to draft. Is that the way you see
25 it, Commissioner Scott? That's what you are trying to
56
1 accomplish is make sure we get the concept and form in
2 there.
3 And I think this is something we can handle,
4 Commissioner Nabors. If anybody has suggestions after it
5 is done we can handle that, too. You can also introduce
6 one, Commissioner Nabors.
7 All right. Let's get going. I guess the first thing
8 we are going to do under that, accepting that report,
9 would be to take up each item that has been offered. Now
10 I can do this one of two ways, tell me your wish. We can
11 go through Article I, and go through that list and then I
12 can revert to Article I that's in the calendar. And we
13 will conclude with Article I and go through it orderly in
14 that manner. All right.
15 So we are going to start off with the first Article
16 I, declaration of rights. And Commissioner Scott moves
17 for the public concept of access to the courts regardless
18 of age. All right. All that want to refer that or move
19 it forward, raise your hand.
20 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
21 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It receives a sufficient number
22 of votes, it will move forward.
23 Equality based on gender, age or sexual preference.
24 All that want to send that concept forward raise your
25 hand.
57
1 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
2 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It receives enough votes.
3 Right of privacy versus parental authority. All that
4 want to send that concept forward, raise your hand.
5 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
6 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Barely, it does carry forward.
7 The affirmative action, the general subject of affirmative
8 action.
9 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
10 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It does.
11 Decisions of the U.S. Supreme Court relating to the
12 fourth amendment.
13 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
14 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It goes forward.
15 Limitations on forfeiture of property.
16 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
17 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It goes forward.
18 Private property rights.
19 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
20 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It goes forward. Now, we will
21 revert here to the calendars, it is probably the easiest.
22 You can work off of both if you want a little more detail,
23 but we can work off the calendar because it is easier to
24 use I think. Does everybody have that? Okay. It is on
25 your desk.
58
1 We will start with Article I and we can do it one of
2 two ways. I can say does any member move I-2-1?
3 (No response.)
4 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Does any member move I-2-1a?
5 (No response.)
6 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Does any member want to move to
7 include the protection of the unborn? Any member can
8 introduce this even if it doesn't get the vote. It does
9 not get the vote on this particular item.
10 COMMISSIONER LANGLEY: May I be recognized?
11 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Certainly.
12 COMMISSIONER LANGLEY: Mr. Chairman, that's not the
13 way I understood it. It was understood that Commissioner
14 Connor was going to, was going to sponsor it and now if
15 you would call for the ten supporting votes.
16 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: He did sponsor it.
17 COMMISSIONER LANGLEY: I understand, but I didn't
18 raise my hand because --
19 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: We will take another vote.
20 COMMISSIONER LANGLEY: Sir, Mr. Chairman, you only
21 asked who is going to sponsor it. Mr. Connor is
22 sponsoring it. Now may we vote for the ten supporting
23 votes?
24 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: You are going to move it, right?
25 COMMISSIONER CONNOR: Yes, sir.
59
1 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Commissioner Connor moves it.
2 Now, all that are in favor of this going forward for
3 consideration, raise your hand.
4 COMMISSIONER SMITH: I have a question. Can we say
5 anything about it or not?
6 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Well we have it under the report,
7 but we would have no debate. I don't want to cut anybody
8 off. I think the sponsor or the movant certainly could
9 have some, just short explanation of why he moved it --
10 COMMISSIONER CONNOR: Mr. Chairman --
11 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: -- without objection.
12 COMMISSIONER CONNOR: Yes, sir. If it would be
13 helpful I am prepared to move a group of proposals that I
14 would put under the rubric of sanctity of life matters for
15 consideration. That would range from abortion to
16 euthanasia, if that would be helpful.
17 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: I think it might not be helpful
18 at this point because you can introduce those at any time
19 and they don't need ten votes. Now we are going to vote
20 one more time on Commissioner Connor's proposal that the
21 public include protection of the unborn be considered and
22 moved forward to the committee. All those in favor of
23 moving that forward, raise your hand.
24 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
25 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: I'll be ten.
60
1 Protect life from conception through natural death,
2 I-2-1c. That's sort of the same. You move it,
3 Commissioner Evans moves it. All in favor of moving that
4 forward in that form, raise your hand.
5 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
6 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It fails. Not that it fails, she
7 could still introduce it.
8 Add provision to Article I, Section 2, as follows:
9 "The rights of persons under 18 years of age shall
10 include, but not be limited to, all the fundamental rights
11 of this article unless specifically precluded by laws
12 which enhance the protection of such persons." I-2-2,
13 does anybody move that?
14 (No response.)
15 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right, we will move on.
16 I-2-3, amend Article I, Section 2, to read, "No person
17 shall be deprived of any right because of race, religion,
18 gender, sexual orientation or physical handicap."
19 You move it? Commissioner Riley moves it. I do have
20 a reading clerk who is better than me. All in favor of
21 moving that forward as moved by Commissioner Riley, raise
22 your hand. That's I-2-3. Everybody raise your hand
23 again, let me see what we have got here.
24 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
25 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It passes, it goes forward.
61
1 Commissioner Scott.
2 COMMISSIONER SCOTT: Mr. Chairman, I thought, and
3 members here agree with me, that we were not going to go
4 through and read out every single proposal, but rather we
5 would ask under Article I, section whatever, does any --
6 is there any proposal that a commissioner wishes to move.
7 And that's what, my understanding of what our procedure
8 was going to be. Am I right about that, Judge?
9 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: I was going to do that until we
10 got this concept amendment.
11 COMMISSIONER BARKDULL: That's my understanding but I
12 think the Chair changed my mind earlier on in the
13 discussions.
14 COMMISSIONER SCOTT: Well I would --
15 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: We can get through this in just a
16 minute.
17 COMMISSIONER SCOTT: Yeah, but I think the idea was
18 we would have these concepts and then ask if any member
19 wishes to move any one of these and not put out every
20 single one and have them specifically rejected, which is
21 Commissioner Smith's point. So I would urge that the
22 procedure be that we ask if there is any commissioner who
23 wishes to move any item under Article I, section whatever.
24 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. I'm going to go
25 forward, in the absence of being overruled, with the way
62
1 we are doing it, because I don't think that failure to
2 receive the ten votes precludes it from being considered
3 under the concept anyway.
4 COMMISSIONER ZACK: Mr. Chairman, I have a point of
5 information.
6 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Commissioner Zack.
7 COMMISSIONER ZACK: I am thoroughly confused at this
8 time, and maybe I am the only one. But the right of
9 privacy versus parental authority, which is what we
10 adopted as a overall discussion area, I thought included,
11 for example, what Mr. Connor specifically moved. So it
12 seems to me like we are just undoing precisely what we
13 thought we were doing. Am I missing something?
14 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Yeah, I think you are missing the
15 point that some commissioners don't feel that way and they
16 want to make these specifically.
17 COMMISSIONER ZACK: I'm not sure, Mr. Chairman, that,
18 for example, Mr. Connor -- and I may ask Mr. Connor the
19 question, if I might. Do you feel it is necessary to make
20 a specific motion as to I-2-2 now that the general matter
21 which is contained under right of privacy versus parental
22 authority has been adopted by the group?
23 COMMISSIONER CONNOR: I did, which is why I moved it
24 because of my concern about the scope within which it
25 would be interpreted. And it is why, in the interest of
63
1 economizing our time, I had suggested that I be permitted
2 to move a group, which may or may not survive the ten
3 person vote, but which would be without prejudice, as I
4 understand it, to file an individual proposal. But I
5 thought in moving -- if I had understood the intent of the
6 Chair to go through this, I thought by aggregating
7 proposals --
8 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: The point is well-taken,
9 Commissioner Zack, Commissioner Scott, Commissioner
10 Everybody Else. You-all have an opportunity to move any
11 of these. And what I'm going to do, rather than go
12 through each one, is say, under Article I, declaration of
13 rights, you have reviewed or have the opportunity to
14 review the specific proposals offered by the public. Does
15 anyone move under Article I, Section 2, any of the
16 proposals? Now I'll give you time to look at those
17 proposals and any member may move any one of them. We
18 won't go through them one at a time. I was going to use
19 my reading clerk.
20 We have had the two so we don't have to worry about
21 that. Do you move one, Commissioner Langley?
22 COMMISSIONER LANGLEY: No, Mr. Chairman, but I think
23 there should be an announcement by the Chair that you feel
24 this is already included so we are not per se rejecting
25 these.
64
1 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: I don't think we are rejecting
2 anything.
3 COMMISSIONER LANGLEY: But we are saying that they
4 are not moving because they are already included in what
5 we did.
6 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: I don't think that the failure to
7 move these amounts to a rejection of the item that is not
8 moved. But to make sure that it is considered in the form
9 that it is listed here, you have got to move it. Is that
10 clear? You get a specific proposal drafted which will go
11 to the committee, and if you want it in this specific
12 form, which is what Commissioner Connor was making sure
13 that he had, then, fine. But you need to pick them out
14 one at a time and move them, if you want to.
15 Now that's pretty clear.
16 We got through I-2-3. So we are starting with I-2-3a
17 and going through I-2-9. If anyone wants to move any one
18 of those, we do them one at a time now. Any one of those,
19 move them. Commissioner Sundberg.
20 COMMISSIONER SUNDBERG: I'm sorry, Mr. Chairman.
21 Have you passed over I-2-7?
22 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: No. We haven't passed over
23 anything in Article I other than we have passed over I --
24 everything between I-2-1 and I-2-3. We are now on I-2-3a
25 through I-2-9. And anybody can move any one of those.
65
1 Commissioner Freidin.
2 COMMISSIONER FREIDIN: Mr. Chairman, I move I-2-3a.
3 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: I-2-3a has been membered. Would
4 you read that, Reading Clerk?
5 READING CLERK: Article I, Section 2-3a, "Amend
6 Article I, Section 2, to read: No person shall be
7 deprived of any right because of race, religion, gender,
8 or physical handicap."
9 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. Now everybody that's
10 in favor of moving that forward, which adds the word
11 "gender" to that provision as it exists today, raise your
12 hand.
13 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
14 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It is moved forward.
15 All right. Anybody want to move one, any other of
16 the items between I-2-3b through I-2-9?
17 Commissioner Freidin.
18 COMMISSIONER FREIDIN: Mr. Chairman, I'd like to move
19 I-2-3b.
20 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Move I-2-3b. Read please.
21 READING CLERK: Article I, Section 2-3b, "Amend
22 Article I, Section 2, striking the word 'handicap' and
23 substituting the word 'disability' to conform with the
24 Americans with Disabilities Act."
25 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Everybody in favor of that, raise
66
1 your hand, moving it forward.
2 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
3 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It passed, goes.
4 All right, Commissioner Sundberg.
5 COMMISSIONER SUNDBERG: Mr. Chairman, unless there is
6 a ruling of the Chair that it has already been included
7 within the concept of affirmative action, I would like to
8 move I-2-7.
9 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. Commissioner Sundberg
10 has moved I-2-7, read.
11 READING CLERK: Article I, Section 2-7, "Add the
12 following: The citizens of the state of Florida shall
13 enjoy equal opportunity to employment, housing, public
14 accommodations, public education --"
15 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: You can dispense with the
16 reading. Is everybody familiar with that one? All in
17 favor, raise your hand.
18 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
19 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Okay. It passes. Alternates
20 can't vote. Okay. Does anybody move any of the other
21 items under Article I-2?
22 Commissioner Zack.
23 COMMISSIONER ZACK: Yes, I'd like to move
24 specifically I-2-1, which I think ought to be incorporated
25 in access to courts regardless of age, but in view of the
67
1 procedure that we are going to follow, I'll specifically
2 move that matter.
3 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All in favor of I -- read it.
4 READING CLERK: Article I, Section 2-1, "Amend
5 Article I, Section 2, in pertinent part to read: No
6 person shall be deprived of any right because of race,
7 religion, age or physical handicap."
8 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All in favor, raise your hand.
9 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
10 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It goes forward. Any more under
11 I-2, under Article I?
12 (No response.)
13 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Now we move to Article I, Section
14 3. Read the article -- no, does anybody move any of
15 those? Have time to look them over.
16 Commissioner Evans.
17 COMMISSIONER EVANS: Mr. Chairman, I move Article
18 I-3-1.
19 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. Commissioner Evans --
20 read please.
21 READING CLERK: Article I, Section 3-1, "Add to
22 Article I, Section 3, the compelling state interest test.
23 That is, laws affecting the free exercise clause should be
24 subject to strict scrutiny."
25 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All in favor of moving that
68
1 forward, raise your hand.
2 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
3 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It does not pass. Do you have
4 another one?
5 Commissioner Evans.
6 COMMISSIONER EVANS: Mr. Chairman, I move Article I,
7 Section 3-2.
8 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Article I, Section 3-2, read.
9 READING CLERK: Article I, Section 3-2, "Modify the
10 language in Article I, Section 3, regarding 'indirect aid
11 to sectarian institutions' to ensure that the provision is
12 not interpreted to prevent students in parochial schools
13 from receiving neutral benefits."
14 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All in favor, raise your hand if
15 you want to move it forward.
16 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
17 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It does not move. Any more? Any
18 more under Article I-3?
19 (No response.)
20 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: I want to wait and make sure
21 everybody has read it.
22 Are we ready to move? Move to Article I, Section 4.
23 (Pause.)
24 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Anybody want to move either one
25 of those two public proposals?
69
1 (No response.)
2 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. The train has left.
3 Article I, Section 5. Does anyone move Article I
4 Section 5?
5 COMMISSIONER CONNOR: So moved.
6 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It is moved by Commissioners
7 Connor and Riley. Read.
8 READING CLERK: Article I, Section 5-1, "Amend
9 Article I, Section 5, to read: Rights to assemble and
10 associate. The people shall have the right peaceably to
11 assemble --"
12 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: That's all right. I think
13 everyone has read that. You know what we are voting on.
14 If you are for moving that forward, raise your hand.
15 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
16 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Let's vote again. Everybody get
17 their hands up. We are right on the border here.
18 It does go forward.
19 All right, Article I, Section 6. Let's study those
20 for just a few minutes.
21 (Pause.)
22 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. We are ready to
23 proceed under Section 6. Does anybody move any of these?
24 Commissioner Riley.
25 COMMISSIONER RILEY: I move Article I, Section 6-2.
70
1 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Read Article I, Section 6-2.
2 READING CLERK: Article I, Section 6-2, "All
3 Floridians shall have the right to join labor unions and
4 to bargain collectively. It shall be a felony to coerce,
5 intimidate or threaten employees because of union advocacy
6 or membership."
7 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All in favor of moving that
8 forward, raise your hand.
9 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
10 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It does not go forward. Are
11 there any others under Article I, Section 6?
12 (No response.)
13 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Anybody move any under Article I,
14 Section 6? Okay.
15 If not, we will move to Section 8. That one is
16 pretty short. Anybody move Section 8?
17 (No response.)
18 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right, we will move on.
19 Article I, Section 9.
20 COMMISSIONER SUNDBERG: I'll move --
21 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Commissioner Sundberg.
22 COMMISSIONER SUNDBERG: -- I would like to move
23 Article I-9-1 for that proposal.
24 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. Read please.
25 READING CLERK: Article I, Section 9-1, "Amend
71
1 Article I, Section 9, to read: No person shall be
2 deprived of life, liberty or property without due process
3 of law, or be twice put in jeopardy for the same offense
4 or be compelled in any criminal matter to be a witness
5 against himself. Private property may be forfeited only
6 after felony conviction of, and exhaustion of appeals by,
7 the property owner."
8 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. All in favor of
9 moving that forward, raise your hand.
10 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
11 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It moves forward.
12 Article I, Section 12. Anybody move Article I
13 Section 12?
14 COMMISSIONER RILEY: I move proposal I-12-1.
15 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All in favor of moving that one,
16 raise your hand.
17 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
18 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It fails.
19 Article I, Section 15. This one includes the death
20 penalty. All right. Does anyone move anything under
21 Article I, Section 15? Hearing none -- oh, Commissioner
22 Barnett.
23 COMMISSIONER BARNETT: I move I-15-a-1b.
24 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Read please.
25 READING CLERK: Article I, Section 15-a-1b, "Add
72
1 language to protect against the death penalty being
2 imposed arbitrarily and capriciously. Imposition of the
3 death penalty should require a unanimous jury
4 recommendation for death."
5 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. All in favor of
6 moving that forward, raise your hand.
7 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
8 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It moves forward. Any others
9 under that section, Section 15?
10 (No response.)
11 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Section 16.
12 (No response.)
13 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Section 17, anybody move Article
14 I, Section 17?
15 (No response.)
16 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Section 18, anybody move Section
17 18?
18 Commissioner Langley moves Section I-18-1. All in
19 favor of moving that forward, raise your hand.
20 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
21 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Okay, it moves forward. That's
22 one that probably wasn't covered under the concept, too.
23 Okay. I didn't let him read that time, but it was short.
24 I-19-1 -- yeah, go ahead and read it so it will be in
25 the record.
73
1 READING CLERK: Article I, Section 18-1, "Amend
2 Article I, Section 18, to read: "No administrative
3 agency, except the Department of Military Affairs in an
4 appropriately convened court-martial action, shall impose
5 a sentence of imprisonment, nor shall it impose any other
6 penalty except as provided by law."
7 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Section 19, Article I.
8 Commissioners Riley and Connor move. Which one? Which
9 one are you moving?
10 COMMISSIONER RILEY: I-19-1.
11 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. Read please.
12 READING CLERK: Article I, Section 19-1, "Amend
13 Article I, Section 19 to read: "No person charged with a
14 crime shall be compelled to pay costs before a judgment of
15 conviction has become final. A person not found guilty of
16 a crime shall not be assessed fees or costs to recover
17 property seized as evidence or otherwise held, impounded
18 or stored by the government."
19 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All in favor of moving that one
20 forward, raise your hand.
21 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
22 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It moves forward.
23 Any more under Article I, Section 19?
24 (No response.)
25 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right, Article I, Section 21.
74
1 Commissioner Freidin moves. Read please.
2 COMMISSIONER FREIDIN: Article I-21-1.
3 READING CLERK: Article I, Section 21-1, "Amend
4 Article I, Section 21 to read: The courts shall be open
5 to every person for redress of any injury, without regard
6 to the age of the litigants, and justice shall be
7 administered without sale, denial or delay."
8 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. All in favor of
9 moving that forward, raise your hand.
10 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
11 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It moves forward.
12 Article I, we are still there, on Article I, Section
13 21. There are two others. Does anybody move either of
14 them?
15 (No response.)
16 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Article I, Section 22.
17 Commissioner Rundle.
18 COMMISSIONER RUNDLE: I'd like to move I-22-7.
19 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Read it.
20 READING CLERK: Article I, Section 22-7, "Add: A
21 putative father in a paternity suit does not have the
22 right to trial by jury."
23 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All in favor of moving that
24 forward, raise your hand.
25 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
75
1 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: We did get ten so it goes.
2 Any more under I, Section I-22?
3 Commissioner Freidin.
4 COMMISSIONER FREIDIN: I-22-2.
5 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Read please.
6 READING CLERK: Article I, Section 22-2, "Amend
7 Article I, Section 22, to read: The right of trial by
8 jury shall be secure to all and remain inviolate without
9 regard to the age of the litigants. The qualifications
10 and the number of jurors, not fewer than six, shall be
11 fixed by law."
12 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right, Commissioner Freidin
13 moved. All in favor of moving that forward, raise your
14 hand.
15 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
16 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It does not move forward.
17 Any more under Section 22?
18 (No response.)
19 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Article I, Section 23. There is
20 a lot of these if you want to take a little more time.
21 Commissioner Zack.
22 COMMISSIONER ZACK: Move I-23-11.
23 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Please read.
24 READING CLERK: Article I, Section 23-11, "Prohibit
25 the sale of personal data on individuals from databases
76
1 without written consent of the concerned individual."
2 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All in favor of moving that
3 forward, raise your hand.
4 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
5 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It has it. Zack, you picked a
6 winner, Commissioner Zack.
7 COMMISSIONER ZACK: Mr. Chairman, thank you.
8 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Anybody got any others under
9 I-23?
10 Commissioner Mathis.
11 COMMISSIONER MATHIS: I move I-23-2.
12 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: I-23-2, read please.
13 READING CLERK: Article I, Section 23-2, "The right
14 of privacy should not extend to the right to abortion."
15 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All in favor of moving that
16 forward, raise your hand.
17 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
18 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Eight.
19 Any more under Article I, 23?
20 Commissioner West.
21 COMMISSIONER WEST: I would like to move I-23-3.
22 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: I-23-3, please read.
23 READING CLERK: Article 1, Section 23-3,
24 "Constitution should require parental consent for minors
25 to obtain an abortion."
77
1 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All those that want to move that
2 forward, raise your hand.
3 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
4 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Raise your hands again. I
5 thought I counted ten.
6 SECRETARY BLANTON: I get nine, three times.
7 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: I was wrong.
8 All right. Anybody want to move any of the others
9 under I-23?
10 Commissioner Morsani had his hand up and I'll get to
11 you next, Commissioner Evans. Commissioner Morsani.
12 COMMISSIONER MORSANI: Mr. Chairman, I-23-11a, and
13 maybe that was covered in I-23-11.
14 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Well, we can go ahead and go
15 since it is a specific public proposal. Let's read it and
16 we will vote on it.
17 READING CLERK: Article I, Section 23-11a, "Expand
18 the privacy provision as it relates to information that
19 can be obtained from computers."
20 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All in favor of moving that
21 forward, raise your hand.
22 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
23 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It goes forward.
24 Commissioner Evans was next.
25 COMMISSIONER EVANS: I move I-23-5a.
78
1 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Please read.
2 READING CLERK: Article I, Section 23-5a, "Include a
3 provision to affirm parental rights and responsibilities
4 to direct the upbringing of their own children."
5 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Oh, 5a, excuse me, all right.
6 Did I interrupt you or do you want to hear it again?
7 Include a provision to affirm parental rights and
8 responsibilities to direct the upbringing of their own
9 children. All that want to move that forward, raise your
10 hand.
11 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
12 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Okay. It does not go forward.
13 Any more under I-23?
14 Commissioner Connor?
15 COMMISSIONER CONNOR: 1-23-5b, but I believe that
16 there is an error in the summary. I believe it should be
17 included but not limited to.
18 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: That's probably correct. Read it
19 with that change in it, if you would, sir.
20 READING CLERK: Article I, Section 23-5b, "Restore
21 the right of parents to make decisions for their children,
22 including, but not limited to, abortions."
23 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: I think that's the way it was
24 presented. All those in -- yeah.
25 COMMISSIONER SCOTT: For the record, I for one want
79
1 to make the statement here that we adopted as general
2 categories on this one and several others, I don't mean to
3 just pick this one, that are covered in what we first
4 adopted. And so I for one do not consider it necessary to
5 re-adopt it. I just think that point should be made if we
6 are going to go through this.
7 COMMISSIONER CONNOR: I'll accept that.
8 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: I think that's been made and
9 people still want to introduce them. And I think that's
10 fine. They have a right to.
11 Anybody else under I-23? Any other proposals under
12 I-23?
13 Commissioner Connor. Commissioner Evans-Jones,
14 you'll be next.
15 COMMISSIONER CONNOR: Mr. Chairman, I believe that --
16 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: We need to vote on that.
17 COMMISSIONER CONNOR: I withdrew it in view of the
18 statement.
19 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Commissioner Evans-Jones -- oh,
20 do you want to make another one?
21 COMMISSIONER CONNOR: Yes, sir.
22 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Okay. Go ahead.
23 COMMISSIONER CONNOR: Mr. Chairman, I'd like to move
24 I-23-1, which was the proposal, you may recall, by
25 Mr. Horkin in Gainesville, although I believe, frankly,
80
1 that that summary is not a quite fair summary. I think it
2 probably could more fairly be summarized to say that
3 Mr. Horkin favored a provision which would bar Florida
4 courts from construing -- or which would require Florida
5 courts to construe the privacy provision in conformity
6 with the privacy decisions of the United States Supreme
7 Court. I think that's probably a more fair summary of
8 what he had proposed.
9 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Do you move that as you have --
10 COMMISSIONER CONNOR: I move it.
11 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: -- as you have revised it? Did
12 you get the revision?
13 COMMISSIONER CONNOR: It is his proposal, I don't
14 care how it is summarized, I just wanted to add that.
15 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Okay. You weren't revising it.
16 All in favor -- do you want to vote on that? Everybody
17 that wants to move that forward, please raise your hand.
18 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
19 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. It doesn't go forward
20 in that form.
21 Any more under I-23? Commissioner Evans-Jones.
22 COMMISSIONER EVANS-JONES: I-23-4.
23 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Please read.
24 READING CLERK: Article I, Section 23-4, "Require
25 parental consent for minors in all medical procedures."
81
1 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. All in favor of
2 moving that forward, raise your hand.
3 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
4 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It does not go forward. Any more
5 under I-23?
6 (No response.)
7 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. We will move to I-24
8 and give you a few minutes to read -- well, it is just
9 two, three -- two. Anybody move either one of those?
10 (No response.)
11 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Okay. We will move forward to
12 I-25. Well we had better find out what Article I, Section
13 25, is since somebody wants to repeal it. I'm sure
14 Commissioner Barkdull can recite it off the top of his
15 head. Does anybody know what it is without looking it up?
16 COMMISSIONER BROCHIN: Taxpayer bill of rights.
17 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Taxpayer bill of rights. There
18 is a proposal that it should be repealed or add something
19 to it.
20 After the hearings in Washington, though, I don't
21 know if it would do any good to add anything to it or not.
22 Let's move on to Article I, Section --
23 SECRETARY BLANTON: No section.
24 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: -- no section. These are ones
25 that aren't in a section. These are proposals that would
82
1 fit in Article I. Take a minute and read them.
2 Incidentally, while you are reading it, we are going
3 to have lunch brought in and we are going to eat at 12:30.
4 We will eat in the back in the lounge back here.
5 These are some weighty ones here. These don't have
6 an assigned section.
7 Commissioner Barnett.
8 COMMISSIONER BARNETT: Commissioner Kogan had just
9 suggested that I do I-10, but we were discussing the
10 merits of it and you passed it by before I had a chance.
11 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Certainly you qualify as a
12 subject we would all like to visit there, along with
13 Justice Kogan at the other end of the beach.
14 (Laughter.)
15 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Commissioner Riley?
16 I'm teasing, Martha.
17 COMMISSIONER RILEY: I sincerely hope so,
18 Mr. Chairman.
19 I'd like to move forward I-x-3.
20 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: I-x-3, would you read, please?
21 READING CLERK: Article I-x-3, "Create a Bill of
22 Rights for Children. Replace the concept that keeping the
23 family together is the best policy, notwithstanding the
24 family's dysfunction."
25 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. Everybody that wants
83
1 to move that forward, raise your hand.
2 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
3 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It does not go. Any others?
4 COMMISSIONER CONNOR: I'll move I-x-1, Mr. Chairman.
5 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Commissioner Connor moves I-x-1.
6 Read it please.
7 READING CLERK: Article I-x-1, "Add a Freedom of
8 Conscience Amendment: No person shall be directly
9 compelled to support or endorse any cause, charity,
10 purpose, or organization, financially or otherwise, or
11 indirectly to do so as a condition upon the receipt of a
12 public benefit or the exercise of a public privilege or
13 right, except in the payment of taxes enacted pursuant to
14 general law or as a penalty imposed by a court for the
15 commission of a crime."
16 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. All in favor of
17 moving that forward, raise your hand please.
18 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
19 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It fails.
20 Next one? Anybody else under the x?
21 Commissioner Rundle.
22 COMMISSIONER RUNDLE: I'd like to move I-x-16.
23 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: I-x-16. Read it please.
24 READING CLERK: Article I-x-16, "Criminals must serve
25 at least 85 percent of their time."
84
1 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All in favor of moving that
2 forward, please raise your hand.
3 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
4 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Get them up.
5 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
6 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Ten, it goes forward.
7 Commissioner Riley.
8 COMMISSIONER RILEY: I'd like to move forward
9 I-x-14a.
10 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Read it please.
11 READING CLERK: Article I-x-14a, "Allow the use of
12 marijuana for medical purposes. Allow physicians to
13 prescribe cannabis to certified patients."
14 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All in favor, raise your hand.
15 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
16 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It moves forward.
17 Commissioner Zack.
18 COMMISSIONER ZACK: I'd like to move I-x-18a.
19 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: I-x-18a, read it please.
20 READING CLERK: Article I-x-18a, "Provide all
21 children medical care, no matter what their means are."
22 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All in favor, raise your hand.
23 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
24 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It goes forward.
25 Commissioner Evans.
85
1 COMMISSIONER EVANS: I move I-x-15.
2 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: I-x-15, read please.
3 READING CLERK: Article I-x-15, "An inmate shall lose
4 all reductions of sentence upon a finding by a petit jury
5 of the filing of a frivolous lawsuit."
6 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All in favor, raise your hand.
7 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
8 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It does not go forward.
9 Any more under x?
10 (No response.)
11 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. There being no more,
12 we will move to Article II, general provisions, and begin
13 with Article II, Section 2.
14 Commissioner Scott.
15 COMMISSIONER SCOTT: Mr. Chairman, we have listed as
16 a general category the environmental bill of rights issue
17 that we heard a lot of discussion on.
18 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Excuse me, we need to go through
19 your -- I'll go through them right now. I didn't start at
20 the right place. Senator Scott -- Commissioner Scott is
21 correct.
22 Article II, general provisions, an environmental bill
23 of rights. All in favor of going forward on the
24 environmental bill of rights, raise your hand.
25 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
86
1 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It goes forward.
2 The Ethics Commission. I think there was a specific
3 provision.
4 COMMISSIONER SCOTT: There is a specific provision so
5 we will just withdraw that. And I assume somebody is
6 going to move it. This is one that some commissioners
7 wanted.
8 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It is not on this list, but we
9 had it proposed. At one of the later ones, if somebody
10 wants to move it, we can go ahead and deal with it if
11 you'd like to.
12 Commissioner Scott, under your proposal, there was a
13 proposal, as I recall it, to create an Ethics Commission
14 that would be -- consider all the things that involved
15 ethics for every branch of government. Wasn't that it?
16 Commissioner Zack, who was chairman of the Ethics
17 Commission as it now exists.
18 COMMISSIONER ZACK: I would like to have that in
19 there as a general provision because there are a number of
20 issues involving the Ethics Commission that aren't
21 addressed specifically but they were touched on in a
22 number of our hearings. So I think it would be
23 appropriate.
24 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All in favor of moving the Ethics
25 Commission title forward.
87
1 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
2 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It goes forward.
3 Now we will revert to Article II, Section 3. Does
4 anybody want to move -- excuse me, Article II, Section 2.
5 Does anybody want to move those two, any one of those two?
6 Commissioner Rundle.
7 COMMISSIONER RUNDLE: Mr. Chair, we find II-2-2 very
8 entertaining.
9 (Laughter.)
10 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All in favor -- read it, read it,
11 read it.
12 READING CLERK: Article II, Section 2-2, "Lawyers
13 should be removed from elective office in the legislative
14 and executive branches of government."
15 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: I don't know why they didn't
16 include judicial in that. Let's make it universal. Okay.
17 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
18 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Okay, it fails. That's right, we
19 have that one in Article V; don't we?
20 Article II, Section 5.
21 Does anybody want to move that? If not, we'll go to
22 Article II, Section 6.
23 COMMISSIONER HENDERSON: I'll move that on behalf of
24 the Department of Community Affairs.
25 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: II-6. Would you read it please?
88
1 READING CLERK: Article II, Section 6-1, "Add the
2 following section: It shall be the policy of this state
3 to protect the safety of persons and property from natural
4 and nonnatural disasters. Adequate provision shall be
5 made by law to provide incentives to ensure this measure
6 of health, safety and welfare protection for all persons
7 and property."
8 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. All in favor, raise
9 your hand.
10 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
11 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right, six.
12 Move to the Article II, Section 7. There are a lot
13 of those.
14 COMMISSIONER HENDERSON: Mr. Chairman, there is no
15 need to move any of the specifics there under the bill of
16 rights since we have adopted it as a concept.
17 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: That's correct. If you want to
18 move the specific one, all right, but if you don't, we
19 have got it already.
20 Commissioner Mills.
21 COMMISSIONER MILLS: Just to clarify, I guess Article
22 II, Section 7-x-3, would simply be a process issue, if you
23 have an environmental bill of rights.
24 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: No, I think what this says is
25 create a whole new article for the natural resources.
89
1 COMMISSIONER MILLS: It doesn't have that content, it
2 is just a process issue.
3 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Well, don't move it then.
4 COMMISSIONER MILLS: I won't. Thank you.
5 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Any more under 11-7 [sic]?
6 (No response.)
7 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Anybody move any under 11-7
8 [sic]?
9 COMMISSIONER RILEY: Two, Article II.
10 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Excuse me, Article II, 11. I'm
11 getting punchy. We're going to have to take a recess here
12 to get me back in order. Nobody moves, okay.
13 Article II, Section 10.
14 READING CLERK: Section 8.
15 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Eight. I really got bemused by
16 Commissioners Barnett and Kogan. I keep visualizing that,
17 Commissioner Kogan.
18 All right, Commissioner Mills. I have had enough
19 nonsense.
20 COMMISSIONER MILLS: I move Article II, Section
21 8-f-1.
22 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: 8-f-1, go ahead.
23 READING CLERK: Article II, Section 8-f-1, "Authorize
24 the Ethics Commission to initiate investigations (i.e.,
25 'primary' investigations)."
90
1 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All in favor of moving that
2 forward, raise your hand.
3 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
4 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It has it, it moves forward. Any
5 more under Section 8?
6 Commissioner Barnett.
7 COMMISSIONER BARNETT: I'd like to move II-8-a-1.
8 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: II-8-a-1, read please.
9 READING CLERK: Article II, Section 8-a-1, "Article
10 II, Section 8(a), requiring full and public financial
11 disclosure by elected constitutional officers, should be
12 amended to include all elected officials in the state.
13 This would pick up elected municipal officers and officers
14 of special districts."
15 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All in favor of moving that
16 forward, raise your hand, please.
17 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
18 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It has it, it moves forward.
19 Any more under Section 8?
20 Commissioner Rundle.
21 COMMISSIONER RUNDLE: To go along with Section
22 II-8-f-1, I'll move Section II-8-f-1a.
23 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Okay, read please.
24 READING CLERK: Article II, Section 8-f-1a,
25 "Strengthen the powers of the Ethics Commission."
91
1 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All in favor of moving it
2 forward, raise your hand.
3 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
4 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It has it, barely.
5 All right. Any more?
6 Commissioner Barnett.
7 COMMISSIONER BARNETT: I'd like to move II-8-x-2.
8 Article II, Section 8, proposal x-2.
9 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. Read it, please.
10 READING CLERK: Article II, Section 8-x-2, "Members
11 of the legislative branch should be subject to sanction
12 for ethics violations notwithstanding reliance on the
13 advice of counsel, as are all other officers and employees
14 subject to the Code."
15 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. All in favor of
16 moving that forward, raise your hand please.
17 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
18 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It has it. It moves forward.
19 Any additional?
20 Commissioner Freidin.
21 COMMISSIONER FREIDIN: I'd like to move Article II,
22 Section 8-x-1.
23 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. Read it please, sir.
24 READING CLERK: Article II, Section 8-x-1, "Transfer
25 to Article II, Section 8, provisions of Article III,
92
1 Section 18, which requires the enactment of a Code of
2 Ethics for public officers and employees."
3 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. In favor, raise your
4 hand, please.
5 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
6 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It makes it. Any more? Last
7 call.
8 (No response.)
9 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Article II, Section 10 -- x, new
10 section. That was ten in Roman numerals. When I was
11 educated, that's how we did numbers. That was in Pioneer,
12 Florida.
13 Do we have any under x at all?
14 (No response.)
15 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: None under x. Okay. Now we go
16 to Article III. Article III, Section 1. We will go to
17 Commissioner Scott's general topics. First,
18 reapportionment by an independent commission. I'll just
19 go through these, Commissioner Scott, if that's agreeable.
20 All in favor of reapportionment -- going forward with the
21 concept of reapportionment by an independent commission,
22 raise your hand.
23 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
24 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It has it.
25 Length of terms and term limitations, everybody that
93
1 wants to move that forward.
2 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
3 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It carries forward.
4 Residency and other qualifications of members.
5 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
6 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It goes forward.
7 And form of session.
8 Commissioner Scott.
9 COMMISSIONER SCOTT: This form of session is the
10 issue of whether we are going to have a bifurcated
11 session, whether we take up separate budget sessions, some
12 of the Mallory Horne discussions.
13 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: That may be in some of these.
14 Commissioner Barkdull, did you move that?
15 COMMISSIONER BARKDULL: Yes, sir.
16 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: And Commissioner Zack moves it,
17 too. No, everybody is voting on it. Okay, let's vote on
18 it.
19 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
20 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It goes forward.
21 Section 3 we did.
22 Section 5, Article III. No, wait a minute, we didn't
23 do Section 3, I did -- we need to start with Article III,
24 Section 1.
25 Move -- Commissioner Riley moves 1.
94
1 COMMISSIONER RILEY: III-1-1b.
2 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All in favor.
3 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
4 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: That brings us back, Commissioner
5 Riley, should we include the judicial and executive branch
6 as well.
7 Article III, Section 1, anybody?
8 Yes, Commissioner Barnett. You will be next,
9 Commissioner Sundberg.
10 COMMISSIONER BARNETT: Article III, Section 1-4.
11 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Read please.
12 READING CLERK: Article III, Section 1-4, "All for
13 multiple-member districts; at least a multiple-member
14 house and a single-member senate."
15 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All in favor of moving that
16 forward, raise your hand.
17 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
18 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It has it.
19 Any more? Commissioner Sundberg.
20 COMMISSIONER SUNDBERG: I would like to move Article
21 III-1-2.
22 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Read.
23 READING CLERK: Article III, Section 1-2, "Florida
24 should have a one-house Legislature."
25 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All in favor of moving that
95
1 forward.
2 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
3 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Failed. Wait a minute, it has
4 it.
5 Commissioner Scott.
6 COMMISSIONER SCOTT: In view of the others that have
7 been moved, I would like to move Article III, Section 1-3
8 to require single member districts be set forth in the
9 Constitution.
10 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All in favor -- oh, read it.
11 READING CLERK: Article III, Section 1-3, "The
12 requirement for single-member districts should be
13 specifically set out in the Constitution."
14 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All in favor of moving that
15 forward, raise your hand.
16 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
17 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Moves forward.
18 Any more?
19 (No response.)
20 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. We will move to
21 Section 3. Anybody want to move any of those
22 specifically? The Chair would announce that each one of
23 those would probably go to the committee under
24 Commissioner Scott. If he wants to, he could just
25 announce that. If nobody objects, that's the way it will
96
1 be. We will send these with that general provision,
2 Commissioner Scott.
3 Okay. Article III, Section 5. Read it -- no, wait a
4 minute, nobody has moved it, excuse me. Article III,
5 Section 5 proposal.
6 (No response.)
7 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Okay. Nobody moves it.
8 Article III, Section 6. Anybody move it?
9 (No response.)
10 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: The next one is Article III,
11 Section 7. Anybody move any one of those?
12 Yes, Commissioner Evans-Jones.
13 COMMISSIONER EVANS-JONES: Article III, 7-1.
14 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Read it, please.
15 READING CLERK: Article III, Section 7-1, "All bills
16 should be published and furnished to members in final form
17 at least three days prior to final passage."
18 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All in favor of moving that
19 forward, raise your hand please.
20 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
21 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It does not move forward. Any
22 more under Section 7?
23 (No response.)
24 Article III, Section 8.
25 Commissioner Barkdull.
97
1 COMMISSIONER BARKDULL: I move that forward.
2 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. Read it please.
3 READING CLERK: Article III, Section 8-1, "The period
4 during which the Governor may veto legislation when
5 received during the session should be changed from seven
6 days to 15 days. The period for gubernatorial veto, when
7 legislation is received after adjournment of the
8 Legislature, should be changed from 15 days to 30 days."
9 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All in favor, raise your hand
10 please.
11 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
12 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It goes forward.
13 All right, the next one -- where are we, 9? Section
14 9. All right.
15 (No response.)
16 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: We move to Section 10.
17 (No response.)
18 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: We move to Section 11.
19 (No response.)
20 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: We move to Section 15. Anybody
21 move Section 15?
22 Commissioner Barkdull.
23 COMMISSIONER BARKDULL: I'm waiting for you to get to
24 16.
25 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Oh, okay. We are almost there.
98
1 Anybody have anything on 15?
2 (No response.)
3 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right, move to 16.
4 Commissioner Barkdull.
5 COMMISSIONER BARKDULL: I move Section III-16-1,
6 establish an independent redistricting commission.
7 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. Read it, please.
8 READING CLERK: Article III, Section 16-1, "Establish
9 an independent redistricting commission."
10 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All in favor of moving that
11 forward, raise your hand.
12 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
13 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It moves forward.
14 Any more under Article III, Section 16?
15 (No response.)
16 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Article III, Section 18.
17 (No response.)
18 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Article III, Section 19. Anybody
19 move anything under 19?
20 (No response.)
21 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Article III, Section x, not 10.
22 (No response.)
23 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Article IV, we will move to
24 Article IV, Section 1.
25 I just keep forgetting you, Commissioner Scott.
99
1 COMMISSIONER SCOTT: I'm sure it is not intentional.
2 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It really isn't because how could
3 I ever forget you, sir.
4 COMMISSIONER SCOTT: This is -- the first one is a
5 restructuring of the Cabinet. This is an example where
6 there is all kinds of ideas. And the idea was we would
7 take this concept and look at it rather than trying to
8 take, say, the Nelson proposal or any particular proposal.
9 So I move it.
10 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: You are moving it, right? All in
11 favor of moving the concept raise your hand.
12 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
13 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It moves forward.
14 The next one is a merger of the Marine Fisheries
15 Commission and Florida Game and Fresh Water Fish
16 Commission. All in favor of moving that forward, raise
17 your hand.
18 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
19 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It moves forward.
20 Article IV, then we will revert to the calendar,
21 Article IV, 1.
22 (No response.)
23 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Okay. Article IV, Section 3.
24 Article IV, Section 5. Anybody want to move either of
25 those specific items? It is covered under, as
100
1 Commissioner Scott pointed out, it is the one we just
2 passed.
3 Article IV, Section 6. What is that? It says,
4 repeal this to the extent that the department may be
5 placed under the direct supervision of the Governor and
6 Cabinet.
7 (No response.)
8 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: We will move to Article IV,
9 Section 7.
10 COMMISSIONER BARKDULL: Mr. Chairman, I'd like to
11 move that.
12 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. Commissioner Barkdull
13 moves Article IV, Section 7. Please read.
14 READING CLERK: Article IV, Section 7-b-1, "The
15 Senate should be required to either remove or reinstate an
16 official suspended by the Governor. Currently, the Senate
17 can simply fail to take action."
18 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All in favor of moving that
19 forward, raise your hand.
20 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
21 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It moves forward.
22 Article -- Section 8. Anybody move Section 8?
23 (No response.)
24 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Section 9, we have -- this is
25 covered, I think, under the provisions of Commissioner
101
1 Scott's motion.
2 COMMISSIONER HENDERSON: I know this is covered, but
3 this specific language -- this is very specific language
4 and I'd like to go ahead and move it.
5 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Number 1?
6 COMMISSIONER HENDERSON: Right.
7 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Commissioner Henderson moves
8 Article IV, Section 9-1. All in favor of moving that
9 forward, raise your hand.
10 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
11 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It goes forward.
12 Commissioner Barnett.
13 COMMISSIONER BARNETT: I want to ask a question about
14 IV-9-2 which really deals with perhaps legislative --
15 treating the Game and Fish Commission, or whatever unified
16 body there was, as an executive agency as opposed to a
17 constitutional agency. Is that covered under the broad
18 categorization of unification?
19 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: I would so rule that it is
20 covered under the move forward that we made of
21 Commissioner Scott's.
22 All right, Section x.
23 Commissioner Morsani.
24 COMMISSIONER MORSANI: We should adopt Section IV-x-3
25 there, I guess.
102
1 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: I'm going to put you in the same
2 house as Commissioner Anthony. All those favor of moving
3 that forward, raise your hand.
4 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
5 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It does not.
6 Article IV, Section x.
7 (No response.)
8 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right, we move to Article V.
9 Article V, Section 1 -- no, no, no. State participation
10 in Article V costs is moved by Commissioner Scott. All in
11 favor, raise your hand.
12 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
13 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It goes forward.
14 Merit retention of judges.
15 COMMISSIONER CONNOR: Question. Do I understand the
16 Chair's ruling to be that that is broad enough to include
17 the issue of election of judges?
18 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: No, it does not.
19 COMMISSIONER SCOTT: I would move that we add it so
20 it would read merit retention and election of judges.
21 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: With that amendment, without
22 objection, we will vote on the concept of merit retention
23 or election of judges. All in favor of that going forward
24 raise your hand.
25 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
103
1 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It goes forward.
2 Qualifications and terms of judges. It has been
3 moved, all in favor.
4 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
5 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It goes forward.
6 Fully informed juries. All in favor, raise your
7 hand.
8 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
9 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It fails.
10 Regulation of attorneys. All in favor, raise your
11 hand.
12 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
13 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It fails.
14 All right. Now we will move to the specifics of
15 Article V -- beg your pardon.
16 COMMISSIONER ZACK: I was going to move V-1-1, which
17 I think is slightly different --
18 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Commissioner Zack.
19 COMMISSIONER ZACK: Excuse me. I move V-1-1, which
20 is slightly different than what has been moved as the
21 responsibility to fully fund as opposed to participate in.
22 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All in favor of 5-1-1, raise your
23 hand.
24 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
25 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It goes forward.
104
1 Any more?
2 (No response.)
3 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Article V, Section 2.
4 Commissioner Rundle.
5 COMMISSIONER RUNDLE: Yes, I move Section V-2-a-1.
6 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All in favor -- excuse me, read
7 it.
8 READING CLERK: Article V, Section 2-a-1, "Court
9 shall submit criminal rules of procedure to the
10 Legislature for adoption."
11 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All in favor, raise your hand.
12 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
13 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Fails.
14 Any more under Section 2?
15 (No response.)
16 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. Section 3.
17 Commissioner Langley, not a debate, I trust?
18 COMMISSIONER LANGLEY: No, sir. Mr. Chairman, I
19 just -- I would like to offer V-2-b-1, which is a
20 temporary assignment.
21 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. Read V-2-b-1.
22 READING CLERK: Article V, Section 2-b-1, "Strike
23 'temporary' from Article V, Section 2(b), to provide for
24 unlimited cross-assignments of judges between the trial
25 courts."
105
1 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All in favor of moving that
2 forward, raise your hand.
3 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
4 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. Can we now move to
5 Article V, Section 3?
6 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Did that go forward?
7 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Yeah, there were ten votes.
8 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
9 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Anybody move anything under V,
10 Section 3?
11 Commissioner Morsani.
12 COMMISSIONER MORSANI: I had a question. In the
13 presentations that the officers gave in Gainesville, I
14 know we already addressed the earlier one of the things
15 with the National Guard about the court martials, but are
16 these relevant to any of that?
17 You gentlemen and ladies from the law, help us here.
18 We never like lawyers until we need you. (Laughter.) So
19 can you help me out here about that -- excuse me, can you
20 help me out with those two sections, please?
21 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Anybody want to respond to that
22 that knows military law or National Guard law?
23 COMMISSIONER SUNDBERG: Does anybody know if they
24 will accept --
25 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Who is speaking? Commissioner
106
1 Sundberg.
2 COMMISSIONER SUNDBERG: Does anybody know whether or
3 not this court will accept certified questions from state
4 courts?
5 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Well he is talking about 2-a, I
6 think, number 2, a-2, to allow a military court-martial to
7 be conducted by military judges. Is that the one you're
8 talking about?
9 COMMISSIONER SUNDBERG: I thought he was talking
10 about a-1, I'm sorry.
11 COMMISSIONER MORSANI: Yes, sir. I was talking about
12 both of those because I don't understand them but I know
13 that had come up. So I was asking the question for
14 clarification on both 3-a-1 and I guess 3-a-2.
15 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Does anybody know -- I understood
16 the fellow said the reason that they wanted that is
17 presently the National Guard officers could not act as
18 judges in anything other than summaries, summary
19 court-martials. Was that your understanding of what he
20 said, Commissioner Langley?
21 COMMISSIONER LANGLEY: Yes, sir. And I would move
22 both of those concepts, if Commissioner Morsani was not
23 going to. At least they will be before us and we can have
24 them explained to the committee.
25 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: They have been moved. First we
107
1 will take 3-a. Read please.
2 READING CLERK: Article V, Section 3-a-1, "Amend
3 Article V to allow the District Courts of Appeal and the
4 Supreme Court to submit questions of military law to the
5 Federal Courts of Appeal for the Uniform Services for an
6 advisory opinion."
7 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All in favor of moving that
8 forward, raise your hand please.
9 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
10 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It moves forward.
11 All right, read 2.
12 READING CLERK: Article V, Section 3-a-2, "Amend
13 Article V to allow a military court-martial to be
14 conducted by military judges of the Florida National
15 Guard, with direct appeal to the First District Court of
16 Appeal."
17 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All in favor of moving that
18 forward, raise your hand.
19 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
20 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It moves forward.
21 We will go over to the next page. Commissioner
22 Nabors.
23 COMMISSIONER NABORS: Make sure I understand and I'm
24 concerned about that in the quest to try to limit the
25 ultimate debate that we have, and we are not -- as I
108
1 understand the rules, when we move something like this
2 forward as a specific proposal to committee, it is going
3 to survive to the very end and be voted on.
4 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It won't survive to the bitter
5 end, but it will come back from the committee with a
6 recommendation or a committee substitute in which that
7 subject matter is involved and it can be voted on
8 immediately, or for debate. And the amendments can be
9 altered. Nothing is over until the fat lady sings.
10 Any more under 3-a-3? I mean 3 -- IV.
11 (No response.)
12 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: If not, we will move on to V,
13 Article V, Section 5.
14 (No response.)
15 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. We will move on to
16 Article V, Section 8.
17 Commissioner Wetherington.
18 COMMISSIONER WETHERINGTON: I would move Section
19 V-8-2 and Section 5-8-4.
20 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Let's go 2 first. Read 2,
21 please.
22 READING CLERK: Article V, Section 8-2, "Amend
23 Article V, Section 8, relating to mandatory retirement,
24 and raise the retirement age from 70 to age 72 with no
25 opportunity for the justice or judge to serve any
109
1 remaining term of office."
2 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All in favor of that going
3 forward, raise your hand.
4 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
5 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: You have another one there that
6 says, eliminate it, so -- nobody has moved that yet.
7 Commissioner Sundberg. Wait a minute, we haven't
8 voted on this. Everybody that is -- we are going to read
9 it before and then we are going to vote.
10 Read it please, sir.
11 READING CLERK: Article V, Section 8-4, "All judges
12 should be approved by a qualifications screening process,
13 even those who run for office."
14 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: No, we haven't voted on 2, I
15 don't think; have we? Read 2 again.
16 READING CLERK: Article V, Section 8-2, "Amend
17 Article V, Section 8, relating to mandatory retirement,
18 and raise the retirement age from 70 to age 72 with no
19 opportunity for the justice or judge to serve any
20 remaining term of office."
21 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Everybody in favor of moving that
22 forward, raise your hand.
23 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
24 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It moves forward.
25 Now 4.
110
1 SECRETARY BLANTON: The first one is a and the second
2 is b. He needs to distinguish which one he wants to move.
3 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Proceed, Commissioner Sundberg.
4 COMMISSIONER SUNDBERG: I'm sorry, has 4 been moved
5 by another commissioner? He moved both, I'm sorry.
6 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Yeah, there is two 4s there,
7 Commissioner Wetherington. There is 4a, which is, all
8 judges should be approved by a screening process. So it
9 is Article V, Section 8- or 8-4b. And add b to that and
10 would you read that?
11 READING CLERK: Article V, Section 8-4b, "Amend
12 Article V, Section 8, relating to the qualifications of
13 trial judges to increase the experience level for circuit
14 and county court judges from five to ten years membership
15 in The Florida Bar."
16 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All in favor of moving that
17 forward, raise your hand.
18 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
19 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It moves forward.
20 All right. Any more under Article V, Section 8?
21 Commissioner Sundberg.
22 COMMISSIONER SUNDBERG: Mr. Chairman, I would move
23 Article V-8-1, which eliminates any required retirement
24 age for judges or justices.
25 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. Read Article V-8-1.
111
1 READING CLERK: Article V, Section 8-1, "Amend
2 Article V, Section 8, by removing the requirement for
3 mandatory retirement of justices and judges over the age
4 of 70."
5 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All in favor of moving that
6 forward, raise your hand.
7 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
8 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It moves forward.
9 Any more under Article V, Section 8?
10 (No response.)
11 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: If not, we will move forward to
12 Article V, Section 10. Anybody move -- I'll give somebody
13 an opportunity.
14 COMMISSIONER WETHERINGTON: I'll move it just to make
15 sure.
16 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Commissioner Wetherington moves
17 10-a-1? Is that the one you move?
18 COMMISSIONER WETHERINGTON: Yes.
19 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Read please.
20 READING CLERK: Article V, Section 10-a-1, "Amend
21 Article V, Subsections 10 and 11, to extend the system of
22 merit selection and retention to the trial courts."
23 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All in favor of moving that,
24 raise your hand please.
25 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
112
1 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Moved forward.
2 Any more under Article V, Section 10?
3 (No response.)
4 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. We will move forward
5 to Article V, Section 12. Anybody move anything on
6 Article V, Section 12?
7 (No response.)
8 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Article V, Section 15.
9 (No response.)
10 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Article V, Section 18.
11 (No response.)
12 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Article V, Section 19. And also
13 she tells me that at the bottom, where it says V-19-1b,
14 that goes under this Article V, Section 19, as well. So
15 there are three items under 19. At the very bottom of the
16 page, it is on Page 8 and it is, improve supervision of
17 attorneys and judges, is what it says, and that's all it
18 says. And the other two are 19-1 and 19-1a, that's on
19 that same page.
20 We will move to -- hearing none, we will move to
21 Section x of Article V.
22 All right. We will move.
23 COMMISSIONER CONNOR: Mr. Chairman, I got lost, and I
24 had a request.
25 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: We found you. Commissioner
113
1 Connor.
2 COMMISSIONER CONNOR: I request to go back to one
3 item if we may.
4 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Go ahead.
5 COMMISSIONER CONNOR: Mr. Chairman, I would move
6 V-15-5.
7 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Read please.
8 READING CLERK: Article V, Section 15-5, "Require all
9 lawyers to disclose that monies held for the benefit of
10 their clients may be kept in an interest-bearing account
11 for the client's benefit rather than an interest for the
12 benefit of The Florida Bar Association [sic]."
13 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: The Foundation. All who want to
14 move that forward, raise your hand.
15 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
16 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Eight, it does not make it.
17 We are still on Article V, Section x.
18 (No response.)
19 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Article VI we will move to next.
20 Commissioner Scott, I'll just tack them off here and say
21 that you move these concepts, unless you want to do it.
22 COMMISSIONER SCOTT: Mr. Chairman --
23 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Commissioner Scott.
24 COMMISSIONER SCOTT: -- the first one, ballot access
25 by minority parties, was an issue that was raised by the,
114
1 before the commission. Do you want to take that one
2 first? The second one I have a comment on.
3 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Everybody that's in favor of that
4 concept going forward, raise your hand.
5 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
6 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It goes forward.
7 Term limitations.
8 COMMISSIONER SCOTT: Mr. Chairman, this issue was
9 brought up by a number of proposals. We have already
10 dealt with that issue so far as the Legislature, the
11 legislative term limits. So there are so many different
12 proposals that if it is okay with the commission, I would
13 like to not propose this term limit and then go through
14 the individual --
15 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: You withdraw that proposal. All
16 right.
17 We will then move to the calendar on Article VI.
18 First Article VI, Section 1.
19 Commissioner Anthony.
20 COMMISSIONER ANTHONY: Mr. Chairman, I would like to
21 move item VI-1-3.
22 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. Read it please, sir.
23 READING CLERK: Article VI, Section 1-3, "Allow
24 voting on weekends, allow two days for voting."
25 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Everybody that wants that to go
115
1 forward, raise your hand.
2 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
3 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It goes forward. It does go
4 forward.
5 All right. Article VI, Section 1, we are still on,
6 two more items there.
7 (No response.)
8 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Hearing none, I move on to
9 Section 2, Article VI.
10 Commissioner Riley.
11 COMMISSIONER RILEY: I move forward VI-2-1.
12 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Read it please, sir.
13 READING CLERK: Article VI, Section 2-1, "Require
14 that all candidates must be registered Florida voters for
15 at least one year, and live in the district for at least
16 six months, and continue to live in the district for the
17 entire term."
18 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All in favor of moving that
19 forward, raise your hand.
20 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
21 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Make it ten, that will make it
22 go. All right.
23 Any more under -- yes, Commissioner Evans-Jones.
24 COMMISSIONER EVANS-JONES: I got lost too way back.
25 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Okay, we'll find you.
116
1 COMMISSIONER EVANS-JONES: On Article V, on the slip
2 that Mr. Scott gave us, regulation of attorneys. Did we
3 vote for that?
4 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: No, it did not get 11 votes. We
5 voted on it, and it didn't get 11 votes -- I mean ten. It
6 didn't even get ten votes, much less 11 votes. All right.
7 We did vote on it, Commissioner Evans-Jones.
8 We are still on Section 2 of Article VI.
9 Commissioner Barnett.
10 COMMISSIONER BARNETT: Article VI, Section 2-2.
11 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. Read it, please.
12 READING CLERK: Article VI, Section 2-2, "Amend
13 Article VI, Section 2, to accurately reflect that the
14 legal voting age is 18 rather than 21 years of age."
15 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All in favor of moving that
16 forward, raise your hand please.
17 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
18 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It moves forward.
19 Any more there? There is only one more.
20 (No response.)
21 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Article VI, Section 4. Did I
22 miss you, Commissioner Freidin?
23 COMMISSIONER FREIDIN: No, it was covered.
24 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Article IV, Section 4.
25 COMMISSIONER CONNOR: VI, 4.
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1 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Article VI, Section 4.
2 Commissioner Connor.
3 COMMISSIONER CONNOR: Mr. Chairman, I'll move Article
4 VI-4-1.
5 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Read it, please.
6 READING CLERK: Article VI, Section 4-1, "Impose term
7 limits on all officials, including judges."
8 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All in favor of moving that
9 forward, raise your hand.
10 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
11 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It fails. Any more?
12 Commissioner Langley.
13 COMMISSIONER LANGLEY: I would like to move VI-4-4.
14 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. Read it.
15 READING CLERK: Article VI, Section 4-4, "Extend term
16 limits to include city and county officials."
17 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All in favor of moving that
18 forward, raise your hand.
19 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
20 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It fails.
21 Commissioner Sundberg.
22 COMMISSIONER SUNDBERG: I'd like to move Article
23 VI-4-2.
24 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right, read it.
25 READING CLERK: Article VI, Section 4-2, "Remove all
118
1 term limits from the Constitution."
2 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All in favor of moving that
3 forward, raise your hand.
4 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
5 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It goes forward.
6 All right. Any more on there?
7 (No response.)
8 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. We will move to
9 Article VI, Section 5. There is one there. Does anybody
10 move Article VI, Section 5?
11 (No response.)
12 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: We will go forward. Visitors in
13 the gallery, would you please turn your phones off? I
14 think the rule in the Senate and the rule here is you
15 don't operate these cell phones in the gallery and we are
16 having some difficulties.
17 All right. Article VI, Section 6.
18 (No response.)
19 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. We will move to
20 Article VI, Section 7.
21 (No response.)
22 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Article VI, Section x. There is
23 quite a few of those so we will take a little time.
24 (Off-the-record comment.)
25 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: As a general statement we have,
119
1 but there are a large number of specific proposals. If
2 anybody wants to move them, any one of them, now is the
3 time.
4 Commissioner Mathis.
5 COMMISSIONER MATHIS: I'd like to move Article
6 VI-x-9.
7 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: VI-x-9 has been moved. Read it,
8 please.
9 READING CLERK: Article VI, Section x-9, "Provide for
10 a mechanism to recall justices of the Supreme Court and
11 other elected officials."
12 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All in favor of moving that
13 forward, raise your hand.
14 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
15 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It moves forward.
16 Any more under Article VI-x?
17 COMMISSIONER LEESFIELD: Mr. Chairman?
18 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Yes, Commissioner.
19 COMMISSIONER LEESFIELD: I would like to move Article
20 VI-x-12, support open financing of campaigns.
21 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: That's all right, he can make the
22 motion. Read it, please.
23 READING CLERK: Article VI, Section x-12, "Support
24 public financing of campaigns."
25 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: I'll move it. Let the record
120
1 reflect that I moved that. The alternate might be
2 questioned as to whether he can make a motion so I'll make
3 the motion that we consider that, x-12.
4 You read that; did you not?
5 READING CLERK: Yes, sir.
6 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All in favor of moving that
7 forward, raise your hand.
8 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
9 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It carries forward. Any more?
10 Commissioner Riley.
11 COMMISSIONER RILEY: I'd like to move forward x-15.
12 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: X-15, read, please.
13 READING CLERK: Article VI, Section x-15, "Prohibit
14 the second primary and allow for weekend voting."
15 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All in favor of moving that
16 forward, raise your hand.
17 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
18 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Get them up, we have got to count
19 them again.
20 It carries forward.
21 Any more under Article VI?
22 COMMISSIONER MARSHALL: Mr. Chairman?
23 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Commissioner Marshall.
24 COMMISSIONER MARSHALL: Move forward, move forward
25 VI-x-1 please.
121
1 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: VI-x-1, read, please.
2 READING CLERK: Article VI, Section x-1, "Modify the
3 ballot access laws to increase participation and diminish
4 the power of the major parties."
5 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All in favor of moving that
6 forward, please raise your hand.
7 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
8 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It has it. It goes forward.
9 Any more under -- yes, Commissioner Mills.
10 COMMISSIONER MILLS: VI-x-14, although I think there
11 are two issues there. One is open primary and one is
12 requiring parties to pay. But open primary would be my
13 motion, or both of them if I need to.
14 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Okay. If you want to split them,
15 we will.
16 COMMISSIONER MILLS: Okay. Then I'd move the portion
17 of that that is open primary for discussion.
18 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. So you are moving
19 forward the portion of that that would allow for an open
20 primary thereby allowing all parties to participate. We
21 will call that x-14a if we go the other way. We can call
22 the first one b -- we'll call it something. If you would
23 read that.
24 READING CLERK: Article VI, Section x-14, "Require
25 political parties to pay for primary election. Allow for
122
1 an open primary, thereby allowing all parties to
2 participate."
3 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: The first sentence is stricken
4 from his motion. Does everybody understand? We are
5 voting on this: Allow for an open primary, thereby
6 allowing all parties to participate. So it is an open
7 primary proposal. And he is moving that forward. And it
8 will be x-14a on the record. All in favor of moving that
9 forward, raise your hand.
10 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
11 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It goes forward.
12 Now you don't want to move the other one; is that
13 right? Commissioner Mills, you don't want to move what
14 would be b; is that correct?
15 COMMISSIONER MILLS: (Indicates negatively.)
16 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. What that means, as
17 Commissioner Langley points out, is we will consider it --
18 one form of the open primary is when there is a primary
19 election you can go select where you vote. That's one
20 form of it.
21 COMMISSIONER LANGLEY: Mr. Chairman, I have got to
22 announce that I am amazed and applaud the Democratic party
23 for their sudden interest in open and fair elections.
24 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: After you people switched back a
25 few years ago, such as some that are here, it was
123
1 necessary.
2 (Laughter.)
3 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. I wasn't referring to
4 you, sir.
5 All right. Any more under VI-x?
6 (No response.)
7 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Any more under VI? All right,
8 VI-x.
9 (No response.)
10 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: We go to Article VII.
11 Commissioner Scott, you are recognized for your
12 concepts.
13 COMMISSIONER SCOTT: Well, again, these are
14 proposals -- and I want to make this caveat -- this is not
15 necessarily that we are in favor of it, limitation of
16 homestead exemption from taxation, the question of the
17 first 25 or whatever, that's what we are talking about
18 here, the speakers that raised that issue.
19 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Limitation of homestead exemption
20 from taxation as a concept. All in favor of moving that
21 forward, raise your hand.
22 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
23 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It does move forward.
24 Treatment of municipalities compared to the treatment
25 of other political subdivisions and the state.
124
1 COMMISSIONER SCOTT: Right. Mr. Chairman, that item
2 should really include airports and seaports as well, not
3 just municipalities, because that is the issue. There is
4 a separate issue that it is Article VII-3-a-2 that should
5 be included in that one.
6 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: What you are really saying is the
7 treatment of municipalities and other political
8 subdivisions to be treated with the treatment of other
9 political subdivisions in the state to make them all
10 comparable.
11 COMMISSIONER SCOTT: Right.
12 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Everybody understand that? If
13 you are for moving that forward, raise your hand, please.
14 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
15 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It moves forward. Sales tax
16 exemptions, budget process and extraordinary votes.
17 COMMISSIONER SCOTT: Right. Mr. Chairman, let me say
18 that we had some speakers that raised the question of the
19 sales tax exemptions, sunset of sales tax exemptions,
20 that's what part of that item is. The second part is the
21 question of the budget process, that was in the budget and
22 taxation changes that have been made, including the
23 waiting periods and no waiting periods. And we need to
24 straighten that out.
25 And we do not have a proposal yet, but we expect to
125
1 bring one before the committee, if you-all approve this,
2 next time, whenever we meet to discuss, to have it
3 available.
4 And the other one is the issue that was raised by a
5 number of speakers about requiring extraordinary votes.
6 Again, not saying that I or anyone is stating a position
7 on that, but requiring extraordinary votes to increase
8 taxes and to make other changes. So those are what those
9 three issues are.
10 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: The Chair has a question. Does
11 this include the proposal that we allow for the imposition
12 of an income tax that was proposed?
13 COMMISSIONER SCOTT: No.
14 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Just thought maybe you were broad
15 enough to --
16 COMMISSIONER SCOTT: I am not totally asleep here,
17 Mr. Chairman.
18 (Laughter.)
19 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Well, I thought you said it was
20 broad enough to cover the whole subject.
21 COMMISSIONER SCOTT: Sales tax exemptions, budget
22 process and extraordinary votes.
23 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Everybody in favor of moving this
24 limited concept forward, very broadly limited concept,
25 raise your hand.
126
1 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
2 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Okay. It goes forward.
3 COMMISSIONER SCOTT: Mr. Chairman, with your
4 indulgence, either I want to say under this article or
5 where appropriate, there is an issue that a number of
6 speakers raised that we did not get printed on this and
7 some of the commissioners brought up involving unfunded
8 mandates. And they want to have a discussion regarding
9 unfunded mandates in the finance and taxation committee.
10 So I would like to add that, with the indulgence of the
11 commission, unfunded mandates.
12 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Wouldn't it also be appropriate
13 to refer that to the local government committee?
14 COMMISSIONER SCOTT: It may be. Maybe it was going
15 to go both places, but wherever it is appropriate.
16 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: That's included in this, so all
17 in favor of moving these items forward, raise your hand.
18 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
19 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: They do move forward.
20 We will now go to Article VIII -- excuse me, Article
21 VII, Section 1.
22 (No response.)
23 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Hearing no motions on Section
24 1 -- Commissioner Connor.
25 COMMISSIONER CONNOR: Mr. Chairman, I would move
127
1 Article VII, Section 1-e-2, impose spending limits on the
2 government.
3 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Read, please.
4 READING CLERK: Article VII, Section 1-e-2, "Impose
5 spending limits on the government."
6 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All in favor, raise your hand.
7 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
8 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Raise them again. They keep
9 going up here, let's see.
10 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
11 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It will move forward.
12 Article VII, Section 2. Commissioner Mills.
13 COMMISSIONER MILLS: Section VII-2-1.
14 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Read, please.
15 READING CLERK: Article VII, Section 2-1, "Remove
16 intangible personal property taxes from the law."
17 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All in favor of going forward.
18 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
19 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It goes. Any more there? There
20 is only one more. Okay.
21 (Off-the-record comment.)
22 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Yeah, the last one did, VII-2-1
23 received the necessary votes to go forward. Article --
24 COMMISSIONER CONNOR: Mr. Chairman, point of
25 information. I recall that we had a representative
128
1 address this in Orlando on spending limitations and I
2 can't recall if the Orlando proposals were supposed to be
3 included --
4 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: I think they are.
5 COMMISSIONER CONNOR: -- but I didn't see it and I
6 wanted to move that proposal as well. I think it was --
7 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: If it is not in there, we will
8 take it up at the next meeting.
9 Commissioner Riley.
10 COMMISSIONER RILEY: Mr. Chairman, another point of
11 information. Concerning proposals like that that we know
12 are not in here, what we are doing today, since we are
13 going immediately to committee meetings, will we be
14 meeting as a full commission to --
15 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Yes.
16 COMMISSIONER RILEY: In response to this --
17 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: There will be plenty to keep the
18 committees busy and we will have a meeting of the next
19 commission on everything. And we will bring these up that
20 haven't been considered.
21 Yes, Commissioner West.
22 COMMISSIONER WEST: Just a question. How was this
23 prepared because I remember that same proposal.
24 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: This was prepared with the public
25 hearings. It does not include Orlando, Tampa, Daytona
129
1 Beach, Tampa and Ft. Myers.
2 COMMISSIONER CONNOR: Oh, it does not.
3 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Those have not been completed so
4 we will take them up at the next meeting and run through
5 them. And a lot of them, if they are duplicated we won't
6 take them up exactly at all.
7 Okay. Now let's move to, where are we? We are at
8 Article VII, Section 3 -- Article VII, Section 3.
9 Commissioner Mathis.
10 COMMISSIONER MATHIS: Just as a point of
11 clarification. Can I assume that Article VII-3-a-2 is
12 included in Mr. Scott's proposals?
13 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Well, you can go ahead and move
14 it if you have got any doubt. Do you move that?
15 Commissioner Mathis moves it. Read it.
16 READING CLERK: Article VII, Section 3-a-2, "Extend
17 the exemption provided to county-owned seaports and
18 airports to those owned by municipal and special district
19 seaports and airports."
20 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Okay. Everybody in favor of
21 moving forward on that, raise your hand.
22 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
23 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It does move forward. Any more
24 on VII, Section 3?
25 Commissioner Evans-Jones.
130
1 COMMISSIONER EVANS-JONES: Section VII-3-a-4.
2 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. Read Section
3 VII-3-a-4, please.
4 READING CLERK: Section VII-3-a-4, "Amend the
5 doctrine of sovereign immunity to provide that public
6 property leased to a private entity is subject to
7 taxation."
8 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. All in favor of
9 moving that forward, raise your hand.
10 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
11 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It moves forward. And I will
12 entertain a question, but everybody has already voted.
13 COMMISSIONER WETHERINGTON: What does sovereign
14 immunity have to do with the taxation?
15 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Commissioner -- well, it's not in
16 the Constitution anywhere, as you know, Judge --
17 Commissioner. The term "sovereign immunity" is not in the
18 Constitution. It doesn't use the language.
19 COMMISSIONER WETHERINGTON: Right, I understand.
20 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: So technically it is not in the
21 Constitution anywhere.
22 Commissioner Barnett.
23 COMMISSIONER BARNETT: The way I interpreted that,
24 Commissioner Wetherington, is really the question of
25 immunity versus exemption from taxation. Just in the
131
1 summary, they had used the wrong words --
2 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: That's correct. I think we'll
3 clean that up because the words "sovereign immunity" does
4 not need to be in there, Commissioner Wetherington. Thank
5 you for that observation.
6 Any more on Article VII, Section -- correct that for
7 the record.
8 (Off-the-record discussion.)
9 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Commissioner Barnett, would you
10 state that again for the record so that we can rewrite
11 that?
12 COMMISSIONER BARNETT: When I read VII-3-a-4 and it
13 said the doctrine of sovereign immunity, I really
14 interpreted that to be the question of whether an entity
15 was immune from taxation or exempt from taxation. And so
16 that should be the word rather than "sovereign immunity,"
17 it is just immunity versus exemption.
18 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. That's fair enough.
19 We are still on Article VII, Section 3. Any more there?
20 (No response.)
21 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. We will move to
22 Article VII, Section 4.
23 (No response.)
24 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Hearing no motions, we will move
25 forward to Article VI, Section 5.
132
1 Commissioner Barnett.
2 COMMISSIONER BARNETT: I'm going to take a deep
3 breath. I move VII-5-1.
4 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Okay. Read VII-5-1.
5 READING CLERK: Article VII, Section 5-1, "Eliminate
6 the constitutional ban on a state income tax."
7 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Okay. And Commissioner, record
8 Senator Scott -- Commissioner Scott as voting. I don't
9 want anything to do with that. Everybody in favor of
10 moving that forward, raise your hand.
11 COMMISSIONER LANGLEY: Question, Chair. On the
12 wording of that, there is no constitutional ban against
13 the income tax. As a matter of fact, it says that it
14 shall not exceed 5 percent. But there is no ban on it.
15 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: We will note that and rewrite it.
16 What she wants to do is provide that you can have an
17 income tax, I interpret that.
18 COMMISSIONER LANGLEY: You already can is what I'm
19 trying to say. Article V says you can have it but it
20 can't exceed 5 percent --
21 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Well, I'm not going to get into
22 an argument on the law right here and now. But what she
23 wants to do is move forward the idea that we can have a
24 state income tax; is that right?
25 COMMISSIONER BARNETT: My purpose is making sure that
133
1 this commission at least have an opportunity to address
2 the question of whether we should give the Legislature
3 authority to impose a personal income tax.
4 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: With that being rewritten in that
5 manner, and we won't have to read it because we will have
6 to read it when we get through, all those in favor of
7 Commissioner Barnett's motion that we amend the
8 Constitution so that we can allow the Legislature to
9 impose a personal income tax, is that right, Commissioner
10 Barnett?
11 COMMISSIONER BARNETT: That's close, yes, sir.
12 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Okay. All those in favor of
13 moving that forward, raise your hand.
14 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
15 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It will move forward as proposed
16 by Commissioner Barnett. And now we will call on
17 Commissioner Riley.
18 COMMISSIONER RILEY: In the -- with the understanding
19 that inclusion is a positive thing, I'd like to move
20 forward VII-5-2.
21 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: VII-5-2. Okay. All you other
22 guys get to vote on this. Read it please, sir.
23 READING CLERK: Article VII, Section 5-2, "Prohibit
24 state income tax."
25 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All in favor of moving that
134
1 forward.
2 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
3 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Tie vote. State income tax would
4 also include corporate income tax which would be a repeal
5 of an existing tax. Do you want to include that in your
6 motion or were you thinking in terms of the program --
7 COMMISSIONER RILEY: Mr. Chairman, I'm going by what
8 this says. And in the interest of getting it to
9 committees for discussion, that's my purpose in including
10 it forward.
11 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Okay. With that understanding,
12 if you want to vote again, we will, if not, we will move
13 forward. Okay. We move forward. Article VII, Section 6.
14 Commissioner Ford-Coates.
15 COMMISSIONER FORD-COATES: I'd like to move VII-6-7.
16 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. Read it please, sir.
17 READING CLERK: Article VII, Section 6-7, "Provide an
18 exemption for the first $5,000 of tangible personal
19 property."
20 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. All those in favor of
21 moving that forward.
22 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
23 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It does have the requisite votes.
24 It will move forward.
25 Commissioner Ford-Coates.
135
1 COMMISSIONER FORD-COATES: Article VII-6-10.
2 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Read that, please.
3 READING CLERK: Article VII, Section 6-10, "Amend the
4 constitution to permit the partial year assessment of
5 homestead property in order to recover the costs of
6 providing services to new homestead property completed
7 after January 1st of each new year."
8 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. All in favor of
9 moving that forward, raise your hand.
10 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
11 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It does move forward.
12 Commissioner Anthony.
13 COMMISSIONER ANTHONY: Article VII-6-4.
14 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. Read it, please.
15 READING CLERK: Article VII, Section 6-4, "Require
16 everyone to pay ad valorem tax on 50 percent of the first
17 $50,000 of assessed valuation and 100 percent on amounts
18 over $50,000."
19 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. All in favor of
20 moving that forward.
21 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
22 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. Now the hands keep
23 going up. Let's raise them again.
24 SECRETARY: There are 10.
25 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: There are -- it does go forward.
136
1 Okay. Any more here under Article VI, Section 6?
2 Commissioner Riley.
3 COMMISSIONER RILEY: I'd like to move forward 6-6.
4 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. Read it, please.
5 READING CLERK: Article VII, Section 6-6, "Index the
6 homestead exemption provision to inflation."
7 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Would that include deflation?
8 Serious question.
9 COMMISSIONER RILEY: Again, I would refer to what's
10 been given to us as proposals from the public.
11 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All those in favor of moving that
12 forward, raise your hand.
13 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
14 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It does not move forward.
15 Anything else under Section VII-6?
16 Commissioner Evans-Jones.
17 COMMISSIONER EVANS-JONES: VII-6-1.
18 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Read it, please.
19 READING CLERK: Article VII, Section 6-1, "Amend
20 Article VII, Section 6, to provide a homestead exemption
21 on the second $25,000 rather than the first."
22 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. Everybody in favor of
23 moving that forward, raise your hand. It's 6-1.
24 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
25 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It does not carry forward. All
137
1 right. The appointed hour -- we can pick up -- if you
2 have got any more on 6-1, we can conclude them right now.
3 Commissioner Henderson.
4 COMMISSIONER HENDERSON: If you're about to conclude,
5 I just want to raise a question of the Chair.
6 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: We are going to go eat lunch and
7 it's back here.
8 COMMISSIONER HENDERSON: I understand. The question
9 is does the Chair anticipate that we will conclude our
10 business today?
11 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: I doubt it. We are going to
12 conclude the commission business but we may need to have
13 committee meetings and we may not be able to conclude or
14 we may. I don't want anybody to count on it yet. We are
15 going to try to, let's put it that way.
16 Commissioner Connor.
17 COMMISSIONER CONNOR: Point of information,
18 Mr. Chairman, because I think it has been causing anxiety
19 among a variety of members. It was my impression that if
20 a proposal fell within the broad rubric that Mr. Scott had
21 used to describe it, that it was not necessary to move an
22 individual proposal. Notwithstanding that, some
23 individual proposals have been moved and failed passage.
24 I believe that some folks didn't vote for those
25 individual proposals believing, nevertheless, that they
138
1 were covered by the broader descriptor and that their mere
2 failure on an individual basis would not preclude their
3 consideration. Would the Chair clarify that issue for me,
4 please?
5 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: I will clarify it later. I have
6 my own opinion, but I'm going to submit it to the rules
7 committee and ask them to advise me what their opinion is
8 and then I'll make a ruling after that.
9 Commissioner Langley.
10 COMMISSIONER LANGLEY: Mr. Chairman, on -- under the
11 very able guidance of your chairmanship today we've made a
12 lot of progress, and a lot of us who don't live here in
13 Tallahassee have rooms reserved tonight and guaranteed and
14 what have you and I don't know what committees would do if
15 they met today unless they just said, "Hi, let's go home."
16 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: If you could wait until I meet
17 with your committee at lunch, I will make some
18 announcement after lunch.
19 COMMISSIONER LANGLEY: Okay. Thank you, sir.
20 Commissioner Barkdull?
21 COMMISSIONER BARKDULL: Mr. Chairman, may I make an
22 inquiry? Do you desire the rules committee to meet
23 immediately upon recess in this room over here?
24 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: That will be fine. That room
25 over there in the back, the anteroom.
139
1 COMMISSIONER BARKDULL: Immediately following recess.
2 And I now move that we recess until the hour of 1:20.
3 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: I think you better say 1:30.
4 COMMISSIONER BARKDULL: 1:30.
5 (Lunch recess from 12:35 p.m. to 1:30 p.m.)
6 (Roll taken and recorded electronically.)
7 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Please take your seats. And if
8 you haven't indicated your presence, push your button.
9 Take your seats and indicate your presence. If you
10 indicated -- push the button.
11 All right. We will come to order, Commissioners.
12 Commissioner Riley, will you take your seat please, and
13 Commissioner Scott? If you haven't signified your
14 presence, do it now. All right.
15 I recognize Commissioner Barkdull.
16 COMMISSIONER BARKDULL: Mr. Chairman, the rules
17 committee met immediately upon adjournment and the report
18 of the committee is on the desk of each member as to the
19 authority and authorization of alternates as to the
20 question of what proposals are still before the committee
21 and as to the recommendation that we dispense with the
22 committee hearings today and we'll adjourn upon completion
23 of the calendar.
24 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. I'll announce that I
25 expect we will definitely be through before late
140
1 afternoon. We're going to proceed through this list. And
2 I think the matters have been cleared up that needed to
3 be.
4 Commissioner Langley, for what purpose do you rise?
5 COMMISSIONER LANGLEY: To correct an error that -- in
6 argumenta about the state income tax. There is in fact a
7 prohibition. I was reading Paragraph B and not Paragraph
8 A --
9 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Section 5, Article VIII.
10 COMMISSIONER LANGLEY: If I were in court, I'd be in
11 deep trouble.
12 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Nobody wanted to enter into the
13 legal argument with you on the floor. Although next time
14 we will.
15 Commissioner Barnett.
16 COMMISSIONER BARNETT: Mr. Chairman, I am a little
17 bit -- I guess I'm confused by the second paragraph of
18 your committee's report. If I read that correctly, then
19 the -- a lot of the activity we went through this morning
20 in deciding whether there was enough commission support to
21 put a proposal -- to send the proposal forward to
22 committee, was really an exercise just in education of the
23 members to the committee about how others might feel or
24 almost a straw ballot because if in fact something did not
25 receive the votes and is not covered under one of the
141
1 umbrella items in Senator Scott's motion, then it appears
2 to me, based on what you say, that every issue is still
3 open and it doesn't prohibit it from coming up in the
4 committee -- and, again, I'm excluding commission members
5 filing it -- then I don't understand what we did this
6 morning as a commission other than a straw ballot on
7 issues of interest to the commission.
8 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Well, number one, I certainly
9 don't want to get back into this discussion to kill
10 another hour. I want us to get out of here this
11 afternoon. Number two, in answering your question the way
12 I interpret what is being done here is, number one, as you
13 correctly point out, any member can introduce anything
14 until the cutoff date and it will go to committee. What
15 the committees will receive are the drafted versions of
16 those individual items that we passed or gave ten votes or
17 more to to go forward this morning.
18 As it relates to the general subjects, it leaves the
19 committee in the posture of having the NA jurisdiction to
20 write as committee substitutes in these general areas but
21 not to introduce as committee proposals. And so I'd like
22 to leave this and get on with the voting if we could.
23 Okay. We'll proceed to Article VII, Section 9. And
24 I'll discuss this with you later or you can discuss it
25 with the chairman of the rules committee. Article IX --
142
1 VII, Section 9. Everybody look at that and see if
2 somebody wants to move it. Article VII, Section 9.
3 Anybody move anything on Article VII, Section 9?
4 (No response.)
5 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. We'll move on to
6 Article VII, Section 12.
7 Commissioner Barkdull.
8 COMMISSIONER BARKDULL: Mr. Chairman, I'd like to
9 move Article VII, Section 12-1.
10 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Article VII, Section 12-1. Would
11 you read, please.
12 READING CLERK: Article VII, Section 12-1, "Narrow
13 the referendum requirement of Article VII, Section 12 to
14 indebtedness payable exclusively from ad valorem taxation
15 and maturing more than 12 months more after issuance."
16 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. All in favor of
17 moving that forward, raise your hands. Raise your hands
18 if you're in favor of moving Section 12-1 forward.
19 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
20 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It does not move forward. All
21 right. Article VII, Section 12.
22 Commissioner Riley.
23 COMMISSIONER RILEY: Mr. Chairman, I have a question.
24 We had received a letter this morning on our desk from the
25 legislative committee on intergovernment regulations as I
143
1 understand it saying that these were met as references
2 that were passed on to the commission, not necessarily
3 recommendations for the Constitution. Am I correct in
4 that understanding --
5 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: I'm informed by the executive
6 director that they got in the summaries and were treated
7 as public proposals and they are not.
8 COMMISSIONER RILEY: Should we then not consider them
9 at this time?
10 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: There's no point in considering
11 them. I don't know which ones they are. Somebody would
12 tell me --
13 COMMISSIONER RILEY: They say LCIR --
14 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. We'll pass those
15 because they are not public.
16 Commissioner Langley.
17 COMMISSIONER LANGLEY: Mr. Chairman, probably nobody
18 wants to go home today more than me because I'm flying and
19 the weather is building and I'd like to get out of here as
20 soon as possible, but we have a complete misunderstanding
21 of what I thought went on in the rules committee. It was
22 my understanding that on those propositions today which
23 were taken up and did not receive ten affirmative sponsors
24 unless they were under the umbrella of the Scott
25 proposals, then they are in fact dead.
144
1 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: They aren't dead, but they don't
2 go forward as public proposals.
3 COMMISSIONER LANGLEY: Right. Exactly.
4 COMMISSIONER SCOTT: Not what this said --
5 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: That's what I thought it said.
6 COMMISSIONER LANGLEY: If that's what it says, we're
7 fine --
8 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: I agree with that. Let's keep
9 going here. We're going to let you catch your plane and
10 it's going to be fair weather all the way. Article VII,
11 Section 13. There is no motion on that. Article VII,
12 Section 14. Is everybody paying attention here? We're on
13 Article VII, Section 14.
14 Commissioner Langley, did you want to move that?
15 COMMISSIONER LANGLEY: Yes, sir. I would like to
16 move Article VII-14-1.
17 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Yes, that's the one we're on.
18 All right. Everybody -- read that, please.
19 READING CLERK: Article VII, Section 14-1, "Place
20 water management in general revenue and do not allow
21 independent taxation authority."
22 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. All in favor of that
23 proposal going forward, raise your hand.
24 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
25 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It does go forward. Article VII,
145
1 Section 15-1. Does anybody move that?
2 (No response.)
3 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: If not, we'll move on. Article
4 VII, Section x.
5 Commissioner Nabors.
6 COMMISSIONER NABORS: I'd like to move Article
7 VII-x-3 both (1) and (2) either separately or in tandem.
8 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. Would you read that,
9 please?
10 READING CLERK: Article VII-x-3 (1), "Make possible
11 for the Legislature to earmark certain fees/taxes for the
12 bonding of capital outlay and (2) restructure the tax
13 system by eliminating the multitude of exemptions."
14 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. Everybody in favor of
15 going forward on Article VII-x-3 (1) and (2), raise your
16 hands.
17 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
18 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It has the necessary votes to go
19 forward. All right. We're still on Article VII, Section
20 x.
21 Commissioner Connor.
22 COMMISSIONER CONNOR: Mr. Chairman, I would move
23 Article VII, Section x-8, tie increases in government to
24 increases in personal income.
25 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Would you read x-8?
146
1 READING CLERK: Article VII, x-8, "Tie increases in
2 government to increases in personal income."
3 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All those in favor of that going
4 forward, raise your hand.
5 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
6 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It does not have the necessary
7 votes. Any more on Article VII, Section x?
8 (No response.)
9 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. We will move on to
10 Article VIII, Local Government, beginning with Article
11 VIII, Section 1.
12 Okay. Commissioner Scott on Article VIII has two
13 topics. Would you move them?
14 COMMISSIONER SCOTT: Yes. The first is the sovereign
15 immunity issue that we've heard a lot of speakers on
16 and --
17 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: A myriad of subjects --
18 COMMISSIONER SCOTT: -- address those issues in
19 different respects, caps, no caps, whatever.
20 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All in favor of the general
21 concept of sovereign immunity going forward, raise your
22 hand.
23 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
24 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It does carry. And then equal
25 treatment on tax exemptions is another more specific
147
1 general.
2 COMMISSIONER SCOTT: Yes. Mr. Chairman, if I might
3 just incorporate what we did before. This was put here
4 because it's under the local government article --
5 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Right. It's so done. It's
6 incorporated as part of the one we've already passed. All
7 right. We'll move on to the summary on Article VIII,
8 Section 1.
9 Commissioner Leesfield.
10 COMMISSIONER LEESFIELD: Yes, I do not see in the
11 specific proposals the sovereign immunity language
12 although I know it was debated at a number of the public
13 hearings. So I would like to insert it, unless I'm
14 missing it, insert it in the --
15 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Not sure we're there yet.
16 COMMISSIONER LEESFIELD: I don't see it in Article
17 VIII, anywhere under Article VIII, under local government
18 any mention of the --
19 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It's in Article X.
20 COMMISSIONER LEESFIELD: In Commissioner Scott's,
21 it's under Article VIII, local government. So to keep it
22 consistent it ought to be brought up in either Article
23 VIII to keep it consistent --
24 COMMISSIONER SCOTT: It also is under X if you'll
25 look --
148
1 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: We're going to incorporate it
2 just like we did his tax deal.
3 COMMISSIONER SCOTT: It's in two places,
4 Commissioner. It's under this one and Article X.
5 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: So when we get to Article X, it's
6 under it too and that's where the main thrust of it is
7 although there is a thrust in local. Thank you very much.
8 Article VIII, Section 1, anybody want to move any of
9 those?
10 (No response.)
11 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Hearing none, we move on to
12 Article VIII, Section 2.
13 Commissioner Nabors.
14 COMMISSIONER NABORS: I'd like to move Article VIII,
15 Section 2-a-1.
16 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: 2-a-1, would you read it, please?
17 READING CLERK: Article VIII, Section 2-a-1, "Amend
18 Article VIII, Section 2(a) regarding formation of
19 municipalities, Section 2(c) regarding annexation, and
20 Section 3, regarding consolidation, and to permit charter
21 counties to provide a process for incorporation,
22 consolidation and annexation in its charter or otherwise
23 strengthen the role of local government in the formation
24 process."
25 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. All those in favor of
149
1 moving that forward, raise your hand.
2 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
3 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It does have ten votes. Any more
4 under Article VIII, Section 2? Any more under Article
5 VIII, Section 2? If not, we'll move on.
6 Article VIII, Section 4. Anybody move 4-1? If not,
7 we'll go forward.
8 Article VIII, Section 9.
9 Commissioner Nabors.
10 COMMISSIONER NABORS: I think there's -- in the
11 calendar there was an oversight. It should be one under
12 Article VIII, Section 5, which is in our handout, it just
13 didn't make it. It says, overrule Snyder as the
14 quasi-judicial issue. And somehow --
15 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Well, we're on Article VIII,
16 Section 4, at the moment.
17 COMMISSIONER NABORS: It's under X.
18 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Right now, we're on Article VIII,
19 Section 4, 4-1. Does anyone want to move it? If not,
20 we'll move on to Article VIII, Section 9.
21 Yes, Commissioner Anthony.
22 COMMISSIONER ANTHONY: Yes. I'd like to move Article
23 VIII-9-b.
24 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. Would you read it,
25 please?
150
1 READING CLERK: Article VIII, Section 9-b, "(a)
2 Amend the Constitution to allow local government to levy
3 taxes (in addition to ad valorem) not inconsistent with
4 general law. (b) Completely remove state tax preemption.
5 (c) Remove the 10 mil millage caps completely, or allow
6 caps to be set by general law. (d) Create a process
7 whereby a local government may raise the millage caps.
8 (e) Eliminate the ad valorem tax and replace the tax with
9 other revenue sources."
10 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. Everybody in favor of
11 moving that forward, raise your hand, please.
12 COMMISSIONER SMITH: I'd like to ask --
13 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Just a minute. Commissioner
14 Smith is recognized.
15 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. If he
16 wants to move all of that at one time or if he wants to
17 divide that. I'm just asking the question --
18 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: He moved it all at one time and
19 that's where it is now.
20 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Okay.
21 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All in favor of moving it
22 forward.
23 Commissioner Evans.
24 COMMISSIONER EVANS: I thought that all of the LCIR
25 proposals were withdrawn.
151
1 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: They are. It doesn't show on
2 mine that it's an LCIR.
3 COMMISSIONER EVANS: It does on this.
4 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Okay. You moved it anyway,
5 didn't you?
6 COMMISSIONER ANTHONY: Mr. Chairman, it is an LCI
7 proposal but seems like such a good proposal to be
8 discussed that it is now an Anthony proposal.
9 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Well, good. Will you just call
10 the -- tell the secretary to direct you to bill drafting
11 and they'll draw it for you.
12 (Laughter.)
13 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Okay. Let's move on.
14 COMMISSIONER HENDERSON: Mr. Chairman, this is what
15 Sam Bell presented yesterday on behalf of the local
16 government.
17 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It's not in here. We'll get it
18 at the next meeting. We've got other things to do the
19 same thing with.
20 (Off-the-record comment.)
21 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: No, he can't move it. It's not a
22 public proposal that's being considered today. It wasn't
23 noticed.
24 Commissioner Riley.
25 COMMISSIONER RILEY: Point of order, Mr. Chairman.
152
1 There are others that we have passed that have only been
2 put forth --
3 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. If you would come
4 forward and tell our staff which ones they are, we'll
5 eliminate them from the record later in this meeting --
6 COMMISSIONER RILEY: Just trying to keep it correct.
7 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: That's great. I appreciate it
8 and I'm sure the staff appreciates your help. Article
9 IX -- excuse me, VIII, Section x now.
10 Commissioner Nabors.
11 COMMISSIONER NABORS: I'd like to move VIII-x-5.
12 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: VIII-x-5, would you please read
13 it?
14 READING CLERK: Article VIII-x-5, "Overrule Snyder
15 v. Brevard County and Jennings v. Dade County thereby
16 permitting citizens the right to speak with their elected
17 official relating to zoning matters."
18 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Is this the one that dealt
19 generally with the ex parte communications with elected
20 officials other than judiciary? Okay. All in favor of
21 moving forward with x-5, raise your hand.
22 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
23 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It received the necessary votes.
24 Any more under Article VIII, Section x, there are several
25 of them there. Hearing none, we'll move on to Article IX,
153
1 education.
2 Commissioner Scott.
3 COMMISSIONER SCOTT: Mr. Chairman, the splitting of
4 counties into school districts which is also a specific
5 proposal is the first one. The second one --
6 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Let's do that one. He moves the
7 general concept of splitting counties into school
8 districts. All in favor of going forward with that, raise
9 your hands.
10 COMMISSIONER CONNOR: What's the number, sir?
11 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It's his on his, Article -- it's
12 the Scott number, Article IX, education, splitting
13 counties into school districts. All that want to go
14 forward with that general subject, raise your hands.
15 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
16 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It does carry. All right. The
17 next one?
18 COMMISSIONER SCOTT: This was based on the statement
19 of the necessity for additional bonding authority for
20 schools. Chancellor Reed, the one he raised. Everybody
21 in favor of going forward with bonding and taxing
22 authorities as the general subject, raise your hand.
23 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
24 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Okay. It goes forward. The next
25 one, reformation of the state board of education.
154
1 COMMISSIONER SCOTT: Right. This is the issue that
2 Commissioner Nelson and others -- when they raised that
3 issue, several members and others have commented. Maybe
4 we need to look at changing the board of education and --
5 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Reform the Cabinet under Article
6 III. Everybody in favor of going forward with that
7 general subject, raise your hand.
8 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
9 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It goes forward. All right.
10 We'll now move then to Article IX, Section 1.
11 Commissioner Riley.
12 COMMISSIONER RILEY: I'd like to move forward 1-1.
13 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. Read 1-1.
14 READING CLERK: Article IX, Section 1-1, "Specific
15 appropriation budget should be designated in the
16 Constitution."
17 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All those in favor of going
18 forward on that, raise your hand.
19 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
20 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It does not go forward. There
21 are two others under -- Commissioner Mathis.
22 COMMISSIONER MATHIS: I'd like to move forward
23 Article IX-1-2.
24 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Read it, please.
25 READING CLERK: Article IX, Section 1-2, "Advocates
155
1 the language of 1868 Constitution which provided that
2 education shall be paramount in Florida and that there
3 shall be a free public university system."
4 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All those in favor of going
5 forward with that, raise your hand.
6 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
7 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: No more tuition. It keels
8 forward. Any more?
9 Commissioner Rundle.
10 COMMISSIONER RUNDLE: I'd like to move 9-1-3.
11 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. All those in favor of
12 going forward -- read it. Read it.
13 READING CLERK: Article IX, Section 1-3, "Broaden the
14 right to a free education to include the first two years
15 of college."
16 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. Everybody in favor of
17 that proposal, X-1-3, raise your hand.
18 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
19 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Goes forward. No more tuition in
20 the junior college. Article IX -- good luck, Commissioner
21 Scott. Commissioner Scott, I'll call you now to Article
22 IX, Section 2.
23 Commissioner Riley.
24 COMMISSIONER RILEY: I move forward IX-2-1.
25 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. Read it, please.
156
1 READING CLERK: Article IX, Section 2-1, "Create an
2 appointed rather than elected Commissioner of Education."
3 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All those in favor of considering
4 that and going forward, raise your hand.
5 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
6 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It does go forward. Okay.
7 Article IX, Section 4.
8 COMMISSIONER MARSHALL: Mr. Chairman?
9 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Commissioner Marshall.
10 COMMISSIONER MARSHALL: I ask that we move IX-4-a-2.
11 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: IX-4-a-2. Would you please read
12 it?
13 READING CLERK: Article IX, Section 4-a-2, "Allow
14 counties to divide into smaller school districts."
15 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. All those in favor of
16 moving that forward, raise your hand.
17 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
18 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It does go forward. All right.
19 We're still on Article IX, Section 4. All right. Article
20 IX, Section 5.
21 Commissioner Riley.
22 COMMISSIONER RILEY: I'd like to move forward IX-5-1.
23 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. Did you want to move
24 that forward too, Commissioner Marshall?
25 COMMISSIONER MARSHALL: Yes, I did, sir, thank you.
157
1 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Article IX, Section 5-1. All
2 those in favor of moving that forward, would you raise
3 your hand? I didn't tell you to read it though, did I?
4 Just put your hands down and let him read.
5 READING CLERK: Article IX, Section 5-1, "Recommends
6 changing to an appointed superintendent of schools."
7 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Okay. Now, everybody raise their
8 hands that wants to go forward with that.
9 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
10 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Okay. It does go forward.
11 Article IX, Section x. Commissioner Barnett rises for
12 another purpose. Article IX, Section x.
13 (No response.)
14 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. If nobody wants to --
15 Commissioner Connor.
16 COMMISSIONER CONNOR: Mr. Chairman, I'll move IX-x-3,
17 please, sir.
18 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. Would you read it,
19 please?
20 READING CLERK: Article IX-x-3. Provide for
21 educational vouchers and school choice.
22 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. All in favor of
23 considering educational vouchers and school choice, raise
24 your hands.
25 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
158
1 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Does not go forward. All right.
2 Any more under Article IX, Section x? If not, we'll move
3 forward to Article X -- Commissioner Scott.
4 COMMISSIONER SCOTT: This category, private property
5 rights, there were several proposals presented to the
6 commission that I think we're going to be either sponsored
7 individually and the question of private property rights,
8 20 percent taking one of them, the guy that spoke I think
9 it was in -- I don't know where it was, Tampa --
10 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: You move a broad subject on
11 Article X of private property rights. All in favor of
12 considering it and going forward, raise your hand.
13 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
14 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It does. Okay.
15 COMMISSIONER SCOTT: And the environmental bonding
16 authority, we need to clarify that with the P2000 issue
17 that would affect maybe some others. But that's the
18 proposal we're talking about.
19 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: And there might have been another
20 one but it would embrace it if it did.
21 COMMISSIONER SCOTT: Right.
22 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. All those in favor of
23 the environmental bonding authority general subject going
24 forward, raise your hands.
25 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
159
1 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Okay. It does pass. Okay.
2 Limitation of homestead. Limitation of homestead
3 exemption for bankruptcy or criminal seizure. We've had
4 something on that but not the bankruptcy part I think. We
5 already passed the other one, didn't we? Anybody want to
6 consider the limitation of homestead exemption for
7 bankruptcy, I guess would be the best way to put it since
8 we have done the other one already. If you do, raise your
9 hand, if you want to limit the homestead exemption in
10 bankruptcy matters.
11 COMMISSIONER SCOTT: If you want to consider it.
12 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: I mean consider doing it because
13 some of us might go bankrupt.
14 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
15 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It does get enough votes to
16 consider. Then you have the general subject which we've
17 already referred to, sovereign immunity, which you put
18 here to be consistent. Did Commissioner Rundle rise for a
19 wonderful purpose?
20 COMMISSIONER RUNDLE: Yes, sir. You didn't say "or
21 criminal seizure." So just to make sure, I would like to
22 move X-4-a-2.
23 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: We'll get there. X-4-a-2, we
24 didn't get there, but we're there now. Okay.
25 Commissioner Rundle moves that we consider -- we're in
160
1 Article X now -- that we consider Article X-4-a-2. Would
2 you read that, please?
3 READING CLERK: Article X, Section 4-a-2, "Amend
4 Article X, Section 4, to clarify the homestead property
5 should not be protected from forfeiture actions."
6 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. All in favor of
7 moving that forward, raise your hand.
8 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
9 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It does go forward. Any more
10 under Article X, Section 4? If not, we'll move on.
11 (No response.)
12 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Article X, Section 6?
13 Commissioner Riley.
14 COMMISSIONER RILEY: I'd like to have move forward
15 X-6-2.
16 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: X-6-2, please read.
17 READING CLERK: Article X, Section 6-2, "Make changes
18 to the eminent domain law."
19 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: I'd say that's good. We'll make
20 it stronger.
21 All those in favor of moving that forward.
22 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
23 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Did not pass. Still on Article
24 IV, Section 6 -- 7 we go to now. Article X -- I was
25 reading the 4 on the other one.
161
1 Commissioner Morsani.
2 COMMISSIONER MORSANI: Mr. Chairman, to digress for
3 just a moment, I think you jumped over Article X, Section
4 2. That goes back to some of the discussion we had
5 earlier this morning, sir --
6 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: That's right. It happened when
7 she moved the 4 and I just kept going.
8 COMMISSIONER MORSANI: I understand.
9 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: If you want to move, we'll call
10 Article X Section 2 since there is a long provision there
11 that includes those two items I think.
12 COMMISSIONER MORSANI: I think they relate to what we
13 talked about this morning. I don't know if they need to
14 be discussed again.
15 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: I think we already acted on
16 those.
17 COMMISSIONER MORSANI: Thank you. That's what I
18 thought. Thank you.
19 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Okay. Now, we will get back on
20 to where I was improperly, Article X, Section 7.
21 (No response.)
22 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Nobody wants to roll the dice.
23 Okay. Article X, Section 10.
24 Commissioner Barkdull, do you want to move one of
25 those?
162
1 (No response.)
2 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. We'll move to Article
3 X, Section 11.
4 (No response.)
5 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Move on to Article X, Section 13.
6 Yes.
7 COMMISSIONER ZACK: Article X-13-2.
8 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. Article X-13-2. Read
9 it, please.
10 READING CLERK: Article X, Section 13-2, "Eliminate
11 the cap on the waiver of sovereign immunity."
12 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All those in favor, raise your
13 hand.
14 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
15 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It does pass. All right.
16 Commissioner Anthony moves X-13-1 -- you didn't, okay. I
17 thought they were saying you did. Article X, Section 14.
18 Commissioner Riley.
19 COMMISSIONER RILEY: I'd like to move forward X-14-1.
20 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Read it, please.
21 READING CLERK: Article X, Section 14-1, "Make
22 provisions that dues of the Florida Retirement System
23 should be adequately protected."
24 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. All in favor of going
25 forward on that, raise your hand. We heard from them at
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1 every public hearing.
2 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
3 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Any more under Article X, Section
4 14? One more. Okay.
5 Article X, Section 15, Judge Wetherington -- or
6 Commissioner Wetherington, you are no longer one of those.
7 COMMISSIONER WETHERINGTON: On Article X, Section
8 14 -- Article X, Section 14, Subsection 2.
9 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Yes.
10 COMMISSIONER WETHERINGTON: I want to move that.
11 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: You move X-14-2?
12 COMMISSIONER WETHERINGTON: Yes.
13 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Read it, please.
14 READING CLERK: Article X, Section 14-2, "Amend
15 Article X, Section 14, to provide that the administration
16 of the public retirement system shall require the Board of
17 Trustees to hold and invest all the assets for the
18 exclusive purpose of providing benefits to all members."
19 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. All those in favor of
20 that, raise your hand.
21 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
22 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It does go forward. Okay.
23 Article X, Section 15. Commissioner Zack moves Article X,
24 Section 15. Would you read X-15-1?
25 READING CLERK: Article X, Section 15-1, "Require
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1 lottery funds to be supplemental to general revenue with
2 general revenue being no less than 4 percent of the actual
3 percentage of the general revenue budget allocation to
4 education as it was at the time the lottery was approved."
5 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. All those in favor of
6 that, raise your hand to be considered further.
7 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
8 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It does go forward. Article X,
9 Section 16. You've got your choice there, men, ladies.
10 (No response.)
11 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. Article X, Section X.
12 (No response.)
13 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Okay. We'll go to Article XI.
14 Commissioner Scott, Article XI.
15 COMMISSIONER SCOTT: Mr. Chairman, again without
16 stating a position in favor of these issues were three of
17 the ones that were raised. The number of signatures
18 required, the question of having statutory initiatives and
19 the question of limiting or having a period of time before
20 an issue could come back and be repeated.
21 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Wouldn't it be appropriate here
22 to reduce -- and to considering the subject of statutory
23 and constitutional initiatives?
24 COMMISSIONER SCOTT: Yes, it would be.
25 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It is so moved that that's what
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1 we'll consider. All those in favor of considering that,
2 raise your hand.
3 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
4 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: We don't need to count that one.
5 Everybody raise their hand. All right. Then we will move
6 on to -- let me see where I am -- Article XI, Section 2.
7 (No response.)
8 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Article XI, Section 3. There's a
9 lot of those so take a little time.
10 COMMISSIONER CONNOR: Point of clarification.
11 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Commissioner Connor.
12 COMMISSIONER CONNOR: On Mr. Scott's motion, do I
13 now -- do I correctly understand what we passed was number
14 of signatures required for constitutional and statutory
15 initiative petitions?
16 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: What we did is passed the entire
17 subject to constitutional initiative for the Constitution
18 or statutory and the attendant matters relating thereto.
19 COMMISSIONER CONNOR: Did that include repetitive
20 initiatives?
21 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Yes, it did.
22 COMMISSIONER CONNOR: It did. Thank you.
23 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. We're now on Article
24 XI, Section 3. Okay. Somebody needs to get going here.
25 Bring up one of them and let's see how we're going to do.
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1 COMMISSIONER ZACK: I believe they are included in
2 the overall heading.
3 COMMISSIONER SCOTT: The only one maybe --
4 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: I think a three fifths vote for
5 approval certainly was not and he moved that --
6 Commissioner Scott moves X-3-1. Would you read that,
7 please?
8 READING CLERK: Article XI, Section 3-1, "Require a
9 three fifths vote for approval of constitutional
10 amendments."
11 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All in favor of going forward on
12 that, raise your hand.
13 COMMISSIONER LANGLEY: Vote by commission or --
14 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: He doesn't say. He says a three
15 fifths vote for approval of constitutional amendments. It
16 could be interpreted to be considered either way, three
17 fifths of those voting, three fifths of the electorate, or
18 whatever.
19 COMMISSIONER SCOTT: Mr. Chairman, just to clarify
20 this issue has been an issue with Tax Watch and a number
21 of these people listed here. What they want is to have a
22 three fifths vote of the people voting in the election for
23 a constitutional amendment.
24 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: And that's what you're moving for
25 consideration?
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1 COMMISSIONER SCOTT: Well, for purposes of
2 consideration.
3 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Okay. I mean, you're not moving
4 that. You're moving that for consideration and that's
5 what everybody does.
6 SECRETARY BLANTON: We need to add the word "people";
7 is that correct? We need to clarify it by adding
8 "people."
9 COMMISSIONER SCOTT: I withdraw it, see if anybody --
10 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: I don't think -- I don't believe
11 we've got ten votes. Just a quick head count.
12 SECRETARY BLANTON: Okay. It didn't get the votes.
13 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. Is it understood that
14 everything on here that relates to the initiatives is
15 included in the general one so that we consider that
16 anything that's on this list other than the one we didn't
17 pass is available to be moved forward? We need to make a
18 note if that's true, otherwise we should go down and do
19 some of them individually.
20 Commissioner Barnett.
21 COMMISSIONER BARNETT: There is one that I wonder if
22 it's appropriately included: Allow Floridians to vote on
23 all constitutional amendments. Is that -- what does that
24 mean? I thought that was currently --
25 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: We have to do it now.
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1 COMMISSIONER BARNETT: Yeah, that's what I thought we
2 did now. So what does that mean?
3 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It means that we consider leaving
4 it like it is.
5 COMMISSIONER BARNETT: Or changing it?
6 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: I guess we could under that
7 general notion.
8 Commissioner Connor.
9 COMMISSIONER CONNOR: Mr. Chairman, I think there is
10 a question in the minds of some as to whether or not
11 Mr. Scott's proposal which had to do with number of
12 signatures required for initiatives and as I understand
13 statutory petitions was intended to include number of
14 signatures and votes required. No, it was not? Thank
15 you.
16 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Let me point out to you, if you
17 want a specific proposal out of one of these public
18 proposals drafted, you need to bring it up now and move
19 it. Or you can draft your own if you like. For example,
20 if you want to provide for the statutory initiative and
21 you want a proposal to that effect, then you need to move
22 it here today.
23 Commissioner Mills. I mean for consideration then
24 there would be a draft -- one of the drafts would be to
25 provide for a statutory initiative.
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1 COMMISSIONER MILLS: If it is necessary to do that,
2 to get a draft, then I'll so move.
3 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It would be certainly advisable
4 to get a separate draft. All those in favor of that,
5 raise your hand -- excuse me, read it, please. It's
6 X-3-3 -- excuse me.
7 READING CLERK: Article 11, Section 3-3, "Provide for
8 statutory initiatives."
9 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All those in favor of that being
10 considered, raise your hand. Okay. Carried forward. Any
11 others anybody wants to move while we're still here?
12 Commissioner Evans.
13 COMMISSIONER EVANS: Based on the same reasoning I
14 move X-3-13 --
15 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: X-3-13, read, please.
16 COMMISSIONER EVANS: -- I mean 11-3-13.
17 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Yes.
18 READING CLERK: Article XI, Section 3-13, "When a
19 citizen's initiative is submitted for review by the Courts
20 as required by law and the Court rejects the initiative on
21 the basis of inadequate or unclear ballot title in
22 summary, the Court shall direct the Secretary of State to
23 prepare such title and summary with wording that is
24 satisfactory to the Court."
25 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: I think you got a separation of
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1 powers problem here, don't you? Okay. We can certainly
2 get one. Everybody in favor of that, raise your hand.
3 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
4 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Okay. That one is gone.
5 Commissioner Nabors.
6 COMMISSIONER NABORS: Make sure the staff's time is
7 occupied. I'll move XII-3-4.
8 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: XII-3-4, read it, please.
9 READING CLERK: Article XI, Section 3-4, "Limit
10 initiatives to the framework of government and not to
11 government regulation."
12 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All those in favor of that,
13 please raise your hand.
14 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
15 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Okay. There will not be one
16 drafted on that. It didn't not go forward.
17 All right. Got any more?
18 (No response.)
19 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Okay. We'll go to Article 12 --
20 excuse me, Commissioner Mathis.
21 COMMISSIONER MATHIS: I would like to submit Article
22 XI, 3-12.
23 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: 3-12. Would you read it, please?
24 READING CLERK: Article XI, Section 312, "Provide
25 that initiatives must first be submitted to the
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1 Legislature. The Legislature would then have two years to
2 act or the initiative would be placed on the ballot."
3 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. All those in favor of
4 moving that forward, raise your hand.
5 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
6 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Does not go forward.
7 Commissioner Evans-Jones.
8 COMMISSIONER EVANS-JONES: I don't see it on here,
9 Mr. Chairman, but I remember the members of the Methodist
10 church presented one that said you can't bring it back for
11 so many years. Is that on here and I just don't see it?
12 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: I think that was in one of the
13 public hearings that we didn't have on this list. We'll
14 take it the next time.
15 COMMISSIONER EVANS-JONES: Okay. Thank you.
16 (Off-the-record comment.)
17 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It's in your initiative? Oh,
18 he's got it in here as repetitive initiatives.
19 COMMISSIONER EVANS-JONES: All right. And is that to
20 be considered?
21 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: That general subject -- actually,
22 that's a specific subject really. So it would go forward,
23 either way, that's correct. It is going forward. All
24 right. We go now to Article XII. And, Commissioner
25 Scott, Article XII. All right. That's the P2000
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1 provision.
2 Commissioner Henderson.
3 COMMISSIONER HENDERSON: I know we had the general
4 language but just for the purpose of drafting the proposal
5 I'd move forward XII-9-2.
6 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: 9-2 is moved by Commissioner
7 Henderson. All those in favor of going forward -- excuse
8 me all those in favor of reading it -- well, wait a
9 minute. Read it, please.
10 READING CLERK: Article XII, Section 9-2, "Establish
11 a Florida land and water conservation fund using revenues
12 dedicated from documentary stamps to support long-term
13 debt and pay-as-you-go programs to purchase high quality
14 state conservation lands, grants to the local governments
15 for community based conservation projects, funding
16 environmental restoration projects on public lands, and
17 financing incentives for long-term conservation
18 stewardship of private lands."
19 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. All in favor of
20 moving that forward, raise your hand.
21 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
22 It does go forward. Commissioner Barkdull, do you
23 move one of these?
24 COMMISSIONER BARKDULL: Yes, sir, XII-9-4.
25 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Would you please read it?
173
1 READING CLERK: Article XII, Section 9-4, "The time
2 limits for bonding for land preservation should be
3 extended from 2013 to 2020."
4 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. All those in favor of
5 moving forward on that subject, please raise your hand.
6 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
7 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It does go forward. Any more on
8 Section -- Article XII?
9 (No response.
10 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. Article XII, Section
11 X.
12 Commissioner Barkdull, for what purpose do you rise?
13 COMMISSIONER BARKDULL: To indicate to the Chair that
14 the secretary of the commission has indicated to me that
15 if we want clarification to appear in the journal as to
16 what the process is concerning public proposals that were
17 specifically raised but did not get ten votes as to where
18 they lie today, it is my understanding that the ruling of
19 the Chair was that if they did not get ten votes and they
20 were within the purview of the items Commissioner Scott
21 brought forth they were still alive. But if they were
22 outside of the purview of the items that Commissioner
23 Scott brought forth they, for all intents and purposes,
24 did not go forward.
25 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: If that's what the rules
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1 committee told me they did, my ruling would have been
2 that.
3 COMMISSIONER BARKDULL: Okay. Thank you.
4 SECRETARY BLANTON: He wants that exchange in the
5 journal.
6 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: We had that exchange then.
7 SECRETARY BLANTON: We'll spread that in the journal.
8 COMMISSIONER BARKDULL: That will now appear in the
9 journal, Ms. Secretary?
10 SECRETARY BLANTON: Yes.
11 COMMISSIONER BARKDULL: Thank you.
12 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right.
13 Commissioner Sundberg?
14 COMMISSIONER SUNDBERG: Mr. Chairman, if we may,
15 please, if you would indulge me to recur to Article X,
16 Section 16. I really thought it was otherwise subsumed
17 under another issue. Lest anyone get the impression
18 because of the great public interest in this issue, I
19 would like to move for consideration, X-16-2.
20 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: X-16-2 has been moved for
21 consideration by Commissioner Sundberg. Read it, please.
22 READING CLERK: Article X, Section 16-2, "Do not
23 change, delete, or modify the net ban."
24 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All in favor of going forward
25 with that, raise your hand.
175
1 (Whereupon, the vote was taken.)
2 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It's 11 votes or more, it goes
3 forward. All right. Does anybody else got any that they
4 want to bring up that we missed, now is the time.
5 Commissioner Riley?
6 COMMISSIONER RILEY: Mr. Chairman, not to specific
7 proposals but to one of the only two issues on
8 Commissioner Scott's list that did not go forward. I
9 would like to present again regulation of attorneys with
10 the understanding that we're not making judgments here,
11 we're just putting it out on the table.
12 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It is out of order. It's been
13 defeated. It did not go forward. We can't do it that
14 way. You lose once, you lose, unless somebody on the
15 prevailing side moves to reconsider.
16 All right. I think we're about where we're -- we
17 will approach the -- being able to adjourn. Before we do,
18 I'd like to say at the appropriate time we're going to
19 give certificates to those members who attended every
20 public hearing and there were several. We're not going to
21 give certificates to those that missed the most meetings
22 but we are going to recognize those that made every
23 meeting. And I think we all need to be most appreciative
24 for those members who did that and they went to great
25 effort.
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1 Commissioner Barkdull.
2 COMMISSIONER BARKDULL: Is the Chair ready to
3 entertain a motion that we recess?
4 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Yes, Your Honor.
5 COMMISSIONER BARKDULL: I'd like to move that we
6 recess to reconvene in session upon call of the Chair and
7 to convene in committee meetings upon the call of the
8 Chair.
9 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. I think that takes
10 precedent over anything on the floor. All those in favor
11 say "aye." We are adjourned -- or recessed.
12 (Session adjourned at 2:30 p.m.)
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1 CERTIFICATE
2
3 STATE OF FLORIDA:
4 COUNTY OF LEON:
5
WE, JULIE L. DOHERTY and KRISTEN L. BENTLEY, Court
6 Reporters, certify that we were authorized to and did
stenographically report the foregoing proceedings
7 and that the transcript is a true and complete
record of our stenographic notes.
8
9 DATED this ______ day of ____________, 1997.
10
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_________________________________
12 JULIE L. DOHERTY, CP, RPR
13
14 _________________________________
KRISTEN L. BENTLEY
15 COURT REPORTERS
DIVISION OF ADMINISTRATIVE HEARINGS
16 1230 APALACHEE PARKWAY
TALLAHASSEE, FLORIDA 32399-3060
17 (904) 488-9675
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