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1 STATE OF FLORIDA
2 CONSTITUTION REVISION COMMISSION
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6 COMMISSION MEETING
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10 DATE: October 21, 1997
11 TIME: Commenced at 8:45 a.m.
Concluded at 9:30 a.m.
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PLACE: The Senate Chamber
13 The Capitol
Tallahassee, Florida
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REPORTED BY: MONA L. WHIDDON
15 Court Reporter
Division of Administrative Hearings
16 The DeSoto Building
1230 Apalachee Parkway
17 Tallahassee, Florida
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1 APPEARANCES
2 W. DEXTER DOUGLASS, CHAIRMAN
3 CARLOS ALFONSO
CLARENCE E. ANTHONY
4 ANTONIO L. ARGIZ
JUDGE THOMAS H. BARKDULL, JR.
5 MARTHA WALTERS BARNETT
ROBERT M. BROCHIN
6 THE HONORABLE ROBERT A. BUTTERWORTH
KEN CONNOR (EXCUSED)
7 CHRIS CORR
SENATOR ANDER CRENSHAW
8 VALERIE EVANS
MARILYN EVANS-JONES
9 BARBARA WILLIAMS FORD-COATES
ELLEN CATSMAN FREIDIN
10 PAUL HAWKES
WILLIAM CLAY HENDERSON
11 THE HONORABLE TONI JENNINGS
THE HONORABLE GERALD KOGAN (EXCUSED)
12 DICK LANGLEY
JOHN F. LOWNDES
13 STANLEY MARSHALL
JACINTA MATHIS
14 JON LESTER MILLS
FRANK MORSANI (EXCUSED)
15 ROBERT LOWRY NABORS
CARLOS PLANAS (EXCUSED)
16 JUDITH BYRNE RILEY
KATHERINE FERNANDEZ RUNDLE
17 SENATOR JIM SCOTT
H. T. SMITH
18 CHRIS T. SULLIVAN (ABSENT)
ALAN C. SUNDBERG
19 JAMES HAROLD THOMPSON
PAUL WEST
20 JUDGE GERALD T. WETHERINGTON
STEPHEN NEAL ZACK
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ALTERNATES:
22 PAT BARTON
IRA H. LEESFIELD (ABSENT)
23 LYRA BLIZZARD LOGAN (ABSENT)
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1 PROCEEDINGS
2 (Roll taken and recorded electronically.)
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7 SECRETARY BLANTON: A quorum is present,
8 Mr. Chairman.
9 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. The meeting will come
10 to order, please. Please come to order. Commissioner
11 Thompson, would you come and give us the invocation this
12 morning, sir?
13 COMMISSIONER THOMPSON: Let's bow our heads, please.
14 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Please rise.
15 COMMISSIONER THOMPSON: Our Father, as we approach
16 this beautiful and gorgeous day that you have given us, we
17 ask that you slow us down a little bit, that you help us
18 think about the things that are important in our lives and
19 in our country, the things that are important to our
20 fellow man. We ask that you slow us down a little bit and
21 we listen a little more and we learn a little bit more and
22 we learn a little bit more compassion.
23 We thank you for this great honor you have bestowed
24 upon us. We ask that you help us treat this position that
25 you have put us in with the kind of honor that is expected
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1 of us. In all that we do, we seek your guidance and your
2 love. Amen.
3 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. Would you lead us in
4 the pledge?
5 (Pledge of allegiance was said.)
6 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Commissioner Barkdull, do you
7 have a report from the rules committee?
8 COMMISSIONER BARKDULL: Yes, Mr. Chairman, and
9 members of the Commission, you should have on your desk a
10 proposed conflict rule which is the result of the meeting
11 of the rules committee yesterday and this morning. I'll
12 give you an opportunity to read it and then we'll move it
13 on for discussion.
14 SECRETARY BLANTON: None of us have it.
15 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Does everybody have it? We don't
16 have it up here.
17 COMMISSIONER BARKDULL: It's on the way.
18 SECRETARY BLANTON: The reading clerk needs it.
19 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: I believe the Reading Clerk needs
20 one.
21 MR. BUZZETT: Here you go.
22 SECRETARY BLANTON: I need one too, Billy. Thank
23 you. We'll get it in a minute.
24 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Commissioner Barkdull.
25 COMMISSIONER BARKDULL: I'll ask the Reading Clerk to
it.
2 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Will you please read the proposed
3 rule?
4 READING CLERK: Rule 1.17, Attendance and voting.
5 Unless a commission member has submitted a written notice
6 provided in Rule 1.18, every Commission member shall be
7 within the Commission's chamber during its sessions and
8 shall vote on each question except as follows. If the
9 vote is on a question which would inure to a
10 Commissioner's special private gain or loss; which he or
11 she knows would inure to the special private gain or loss
12 of any principal by whom the Commissioner is retained; or
13 to the parent organization or subsidiary of a corporate
14 principal by which the Commssioner is retained or which
15 the Commissioner knows would inure to the special gain or
16 loss of a relative or business association of the
17 Commissioner, the Commissioner must file with the
18 Secretary, prior to or at the time of the vote, a
19 statement disclosing a conflict of interest which
20 discloses the nature of his or her interest, and refrain
21 from voting. If a Commissioner later discovers that a
22 conflict existed, within 15 days, the Commissioner shall
23 file with the Secretary, a statement disclosing the
24 conflict and the nature of his or her interest. For
25 purposes of the vote result, the subsequent filing of a
of a conflict of interest will be treated in
2 the same manner as a change of vote in Rule 5.2.
3 COMMISSIONER BARKDULL: That completes a reading in
4 full of the proposed amendment to Rule 1.17, and I would
5 now move its adoption by the Commission.
6 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It has been moved that we adopt
7 as an amended Rule 1.17 as read by the Reading Clerk. Is
8 there any discussion?
9 COMMISSIONER BARKDULL: I might point out that this
10 is basically the Senate rule, and there is attached to
11 your material, or will be, an explanation by Senate staff
12 as to what they believe as to how you would approach this
13 as a conflict.
14 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Commissioner Sundberg.
15 COMMISSIONER SUNDBERG: May I address a question to
16 Comissioner Barkdull? Commissioner Barkdull, does the
17 term "special private gain or loss," does that mean that
18 you or your principal or any of the prohibited class would
19 be affected by the proposal in a way different from the
20 public in general?
21 COMMISSIONER BARKDULL: If your principal or relative
22 would have a special benefit that would be different, you
23 say, but if it's -- we have got the situation where it
24 would be the same, or when you mentioned "different," in
25 what form do you mean that? Because, obviously, if we
a change, say, in a -- you have a minor child that's,
2 say, 17, for instance, and there's a change that will
3 affect all 17-year-olds, I don't think that's a special
4 situation for your family.
5 COMMISSIONER SUNDBERG: Well, that's what I mean.
6 For example, my -- the most likely, you know, I'm employed
7 by an institution of higher education. If in fact the
8 regulation would operate on all institutions of higher
9 education in the same fashion, I assume, and then would be
10 a benefit or detriment, I assume that's not a special
11 benefit and; hence, I would not have a conflict, correct?
12 COMMISSIONER BARKDULL: That's correct.
13 COMMISSIONER SUNDBERG: Thank you.
14 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Commissioner Freiden.
15 COMMISSIONER FREIDIN: May I ask a question of
16 Commissioner Barkdull?
17 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Yes. I should have just had him
18 yield for questions, and Commissioner Freiden will
19 inquire.
20 COMMISSIONER FREIDIN: Commissioner Barkdull, could
21 you explain, please, for those of us in law firms, how
22 this rule impacts on the ability of our partners to, or
23 associates, to come before the Commission to advocate
24 positions?
25 COMMISSIONER BARKDULL: I think it would depend on
they were advocating a position that was for the
2 benefit of a particular client of the law firm, say, a
3 particular condominium association or whether they were
4 advocating something that would impact the entire
5 condominium industry in the State of Florida.
6 COMMISSIONER FREIDIN: Well, I guess the question is
7 if there would be some special gain either to the member
8 of our law firm or to the client who the member of the law
9 firm was representing?
10 COMMISSIONER BARKDULL: It would still be my opinion,
11 in that situation, if the lawyer from your firm was going
12 to gain a fee which you would benefit in, that you would
13 be disqualified.
14 COMMISSIONER FREIDIN: So I guess then, could I
15 conclude from that, that under this rule a lawyer from my
16 law firm could -- who was being paid by a client to
17 advocate an issue before the CRC would, if one of our
18 lawyers accepted that representation, that that would
19 disqualify me under this rule from participating in that
20 issue?
21 COMMISSIONER BARKDULL: I think it certainly would if
22 you would participate in the fee.
23 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. Do you yield to
24 Commissioner Barnett?
25 COMMISSIONER BARKDULL: Yes.
BARNETT: Just a follow-up on that,
2 Judge Barkdull. If an issue is before the Commission that
3 we know would affect clients of the law firm although the
4 firm is not retained to represent the clients on that
5 issue, there's no compensation, there's no fee
6 arrangement, but these are clients of the firm and we
7 know, based on knowledge of our relationship with them, it
8 would affect them, would we be precluded from voting in
9 those circumstances?
10 COMMISSIONER BARKDULL: I don't think so.
11 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Do you yield to Commissioner
12 Nabors?
13 COMMISSIONER BARKDULL: Yes, sir.
14 COMMISSIONER NABORS: Mr. Barkdull, I don't read
15 this -- and I read it quickly, but it really is a
16 disclosure, it doesn't decline you from voting, does it?
17 It requires a disclosure, isn't that the way --
18 COMMISSIONER BARKDULL: It in one instance requires
19 that you do vote.
20 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: It says "refrain from voting."
21 COMMISSIONER NABORS: Let me give you a real-world
22 example. We represent a lot of port authorities. Not a
23 lot, but several, some of which are affected by this issue
24 of tax exemption that was before our committee yesterday.
25 It's not a particular authority, it's a group of
. And we represent other special districts
2 that may be affected by that; would that be a special gain
3 to my firm on that issue?
4 COMMISSIONER BARKDULL: I don't think that you would
5 be because you represent the entire -- represent a class,
6 and there's nothing that a member of your firm is
7 advocating, as Commissioner Freiden pointed out; your
8 example is not the same as hers.
9 COMMISSIONER NABORS: I mean, if anybody is
10 interested to know, we represent a lot of local
11 governments, that's our primary practice. A lot of issues
12 will affect them as a class, but it won't affect --
13 COMMISSIONER BARKDULL: Well, when nobody in the firm
14 has been hired to lobby that particular purpose, I don't
15 think you would be impacted. But if you are impacted
16 financially by a proposition, I think you would be.
17 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Do you yield to Commissioner
18 Henderson?
19 COMMISSIONER BARKDULL: Yes, sir.
20 COMMISSIONER HENDERSON: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
21 Mr. Barkdull, I have a couple of instances that I would
22 like to inquire about in an abundance of caution before
23 hand. I am retained by a corporation which is not a
24 business, it is a public charity, and it does not gain
25 financially in any way by any action that we might do, but
do employ lobbyists. Is it -- should I be with --
2 should I be abstaining on matters before this Commission
3 by which my company takes a position?
4 COMMISSIONER BARKDULL: Your only distinction is that
5 you are a non-profit company.
6 COMMISSIONER HENDERSON: That's right.
7 COMMISSIONER BARKDULL: And other people are
8 for-profit, so personally, I think you would be -- have to
9 abstain.
10 COMMISSIONER HENDERSON: That is a very interesting
11 question.
12 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Well, Commissioner Barkdull, is
13 it not appropriate in individual cases for the member to
14 seek an opinion of the rules committee on whether this
15 rule -- what it does in an individual case?
16 COMMISSIONER BARKDULL: Certainly, they can make an
17 inquiry of the rules committee on any subject matter that
18 would be withi the scope of the rules and we would give an
19 opinion, but that's my personal opinion. I don't think
20 that you can draw a distinction between non-profit and
21 profit.
22 COMMISSIONER HENDERSON: Except that we don't make --
23 there's no business relationship. That is a big
24 difference.
25 COMMISSIONER BARKDULL: My understanding, sir, that
indicated to me that you were compensated by these
2 people.
3 COMMISSIONER HENDERSON: All right, well, there is
4 the difference. Well, I will be seeking some kind of an
5 opinion, I guess. The other -- on behalf of Commissioner
6 Evans and I, we will ask the relative question, and that
7 is that some of y'all are in the judiciary or have been in
8 the judiciary and so let's say might be affected by the
9 retirement age issue or some of the other things. Those
10 of us who are spouses of acting judges, should we be
11 abstaining on matters relating to the judiciary?
12 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: You get a divorce and then you
13 can vote.
14 COMMISSIONER HENDERSON: Okay, that's right.
15 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: That is an interesting
16 proposition. All right. Commissioner Zack has been
17 jumping up and down here. He's got a big question for
18 you. Do you yield?
19 COMMISSIONER BARKDULL: Yes.
20 COMMISSIONER ZACK: Commissioner Barkdull, if there's
21 a change in an issue such as sovereign immunity, does
22 every lawyer in this chamber have to pull every partner in
23 their law firms to determine whether or not some client of
24 theirs will derive a benefit as a result of that change
25 which that lawyer will in some way share in?
BARKDULL: I don't think so, if you
2 don't know at the present time of any potential conflict
3 or a conflict that's in your office.
4 COMMISSIONER ZACK: Well, it may be a common benefit.
5 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: On that issue, Commissioner
6 Barkdull, isn't it true that there's nothing that's going
7 to change in the ongoing cases, even if the Constitution
8 were changed? The law that's applicable at the time would
9 still apply to the case that you have in the office?
10 COMMISSIONER BARKDULL: Well, I think that would
11 depend on how the amendment and the schedule was drawn.
12 Normally constitutional amendments are only prospective.
13 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Correct. Commissioner Thompson.
14 COMMISSIONER THOMPSON: I just wanted to ask a
15 question and maybe try to shed a little light on this, if
16 I could. Judge, I know in our rules committee
17 deliberations we had several requirements, and one of them
18 is we wanted to track the language in the statutes that
19 apply to the Legislature and also we wanted to be careful
20 about the appearance of conflicts and so forth, but that
21 legislative language, folks, has been around a long time.
22 And I think we are very similar to legislators here, in
23 that we come, Commissioner Sundberg, from special
24 interests. We come from an advocating or an advocate
25 position here, and that's okay so long as what we do
put money straight into our pockets.
2 For example, if you use the universities, I mean, all
3 of the money and whatever you can do in behalf of the
4 university system, that's just fine, that's okay. But if
5 you did something that only applied to your employer,
6 which was going to be very hard in a document like the
7 Florida Constitution, then you are not okay and you have
8 got a conflict. As Mr. Hawkes points out, these
9 requirements have been applied to the Legislature a long
10 time. You have got to have some real special interest
11 that goes straight to you. If you are in the banking
12 business and you are in the Legislature and you vote to
13 increase the cap on the usury laws, that applies to all of
14 the banks in the state, not just the bank that you work
15 for. And the same goes for the judiciary and so forth.
16 So I think this has worked very well in the
17 legislative arena, and you are going to see that it's
18 going to work very well here. Now the problem of your law
19 partners is one we considered in our firm and several of
20 us are in this situation where you have a lot of clients.
21 And what I have told mine is, first of all, in the
22 legislative arena, it is not some kind of a legislative
23 rule or whatever that keeps your law partners from
24 lobbying you, not even a Florida Statute; it is the
25 cannons of legal ethics that keeps you from doing that.
the cannons of legal ethics says that you can't be
2 in the legislature in a firm where those attorneys come
3 and lobby you.
4 It used to be done right here in this town and it was
5 a big deal to get a member of the firm into the
6 legislators, and everybody recognized that that is a
7 built-in conflict of interest. But you don't have that
8 kind of problem here so long as you just tell your law
9 partners, Don't lobby me about this. But there's nothing
10 wrong talking to your employer or your employer, Mr.
11 Henderson, about what's good for Florida education or
12 what's good for the environment in Florida or me to talk
13 to any of my clients about that.
14 But when you come in here you do what Mr. Douglass
15 has said from the time he talked to you about your
16 appointment, and that is you vote your conscience and you
17 be honest about what you want to do. And you will see all
18 of us having to vote against sometimes what our employers
19 and clients want to do. And so, what I'm asking you, I
20 guess, in the form of a question, Commissioner Barkdull,
21 is, don't you think that system has worked pretty good and
22 don't you think that's why we put this specific language
23 here?
24 COMMISSIONER BARKDULL: Yes, sir, I see you have got
25 some of the House rules in there.
DOUGLASS: Very well stated. That should
2 answer most questions. One thing, we are commissioners
3 and we have got to remember that, you are no longer Judge,
4 he's Commissioner Barkdull, and you are not Mr. or
5 Mrs. anymore, you are Commissioner. With that,
6 Commissioner Wetherington, do you have a question for
7 Judge Barkdull?
8 COMMISSIONER WETHERINGTON: I have a question. In
9 light of the fact that conflict of interest is always a
10 very murky area, am I correct in determining that if a
11 commissioner, in his or her own mind, concludes to their
12 satisfaction they have a conflict of interest on a given
13 issue, then they would not be required to vote on that
14 issue?
15 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: That's correct. You can -- if
16 you really think you have got a conflict of interest --
17 COMMISSIONER BARKDULL: If you really think you have
18 got one, then you don't have to vote.
19 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: But you will be recorded when you
20 abstain as voting no.
21 COMMISSIONER BARKDULL: Yes, you realize that is a no
22 vote.
23 SECRETARY BLANTON: Abstaining is not to vote.
24 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Okay. I thought that would get a
25 question.
BARKDULL: The reason it's a no vote,
2 it's not in the rule that it's recorded that way, but the
3 reason that it's a no vote is to move the matter forward
4 takes a majority of the Commission. So if you are not
5 here to cast a vote on the affirmative side, obviously it
6 is -- the impact of it is as though you voted no. And the
7 same thing is true on final passage when you have got to
8 have 22 votes; if you abstain and don't vote, the impact
9 of it is a no vote.
10 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Do you yield to Commissioner
11 Langley?
12 COMMISSIONER BARKDULL: Certainly.
13 COMMISSIONER LANGLEY: There's no point in discussing
14 that. You know, that's the way you perceive it, but
15 that's not the way you record it. But just another
16 thought, Senator -- pardon me, Commissioner Scott and I in
17 conversation, you realize that we don't pass anything.
18 All you vote when you vote yes on these things is, yes, I
19 want the people of Florida to have the opportunity to vote
20 on this issue; we can't pass anything. So I wonder really
21 if all of this conflict means anything, because all you
22 are really saying is, Hey, this is a good idea, why don't
23 we see if the people of Florida want to put this in the
24 Constitution. We can't pass it.
25 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Commissioner Langley, I can tell
that, probably what you say is fairly technically
2 correct. But if you don't believe this conflict rule is
3 important, read the paper tomorrow. Commissioner
4 Barkdull.
5 COMMISSIONER BARKDULL: I would move the matter.
6 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. It's been moved. Any
7 further discussion or questions of the Chairman of the
8 Committee? If not, all of those in favor of adoption of
9 the rule, say aye.
10 (Members verbally vote.)
11 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Opposed, like sign.
12 (Members verbally vote.)
13 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Carries by two-thirds vote; the
14 rule is amended.
15 COMMISSIONER BARKDULL: Mr. Chairman, I now move the
16 amendment to Rule 2 point --
17 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Eleven.
18 COMMISSIONER BARKDULL: -- 11. Which this rule
19 pertains to the conflicting committees and the rule you
20 just passed pertain to conflicts on the floor.
21 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: This is the same rule then?
22 COMMISSIONER BARKDULL: The same rule, just
23 applicable to committees.
24 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Would the Reading Clerk please
25 read the rule?
CLERK: Rule 2.11, Committees; proxy voting.
2 Each committee member shall attend all meetings and shall
3 vote on each question except as follows. If the vote is
4 on a question which would inure to a Commissioner's
5 special private gain or loss; which he or she knows would
6 inure to the special private gain or loss of any principal
7 by whom the Commissioner is retained or to the parent
8 organization or subsidiary of a corporate principal by
9 which the Commissioner is retained; or which the
10 Commissioner knows would inure to the special gain or loss
11 of a relative or business association of the Commissioner,
12 the Commissioner must file with the Secretary, prior to or
13 at the time of the vote, a statement disclosing a conflict
14 of interest which discloses the nature of his or her
15 interest, and refrain from voting. If a Commissioner
16 later discovers that a conflict existed, within 15 days,
17 the Commissioner shall file with the Secretary, a
18 statement disclosing the conflict and the nature of his or
19 her interest. For purposes of the vote result, the
20 subsequent filing of a disclosure of a conflict of
21 interest will be treated in the same manner as a change of
22 vote in Rule 5.2. No member of a committee shall vote by
23 proxy.
24 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Commissioner Barkdull.
25 COMMISSIONER BARKDULL: I move the adoption of the
to the rule, please.
2 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Any discussion or any questions?
3 (No response.)
4 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All of those in favor of the
5 adoption of the rule, signify by saying aye.
6 (Members verbally voted.)
7 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Opposed, like sign.
8 (Members verbally voted.)
9 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Carries by two-thirds vote; it is
10 adopted. Commissioner Barkdull.
11 COMMISSIONER BARKDULL: Mr. Chairman, members of the
12 Commission, under our present schedule this will be the
13 last full session that we will have during this meeting.
14 We are next scheduled to be here on Wednesday, the 12th of
15 November. At the conclusion of this meeting we will
16 recess until that time. I want to call to all of your
17 attention, and particularly the chairmen of the
18 committees, that you have the opportunity to have interim
19 committee meetings between now and then to consider
20 proposals.
21 We need to get proposals out so we'll have matters to
22 discuss on the merits at the November meeting. And in
23 that regard, to discuss further with it, with you
24 committee chairs, we would like the committee chairs to
25 meet with the Chairman and myself in the conference room
the Old Capitol where the CRC offices are at 1:00. I
2 know some of you will have committee meetings scheduled
3 for 1:00, but let your vice-chairman open the meeting and
4 we will be short.
5 But we want to have a chat with all of the committee
6 chairmen at 1:00. You will be on your own for lunch
7 today, but please, all of you try to attend that, and
8 we'll try to get you out as quick as possible and get to
9 your committee meetings, those that are scheduled this
10 afternoon. Thank you.
11 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. Does anybody have any
12 further matters they wish to bring up? I would like to --
13 excuse me, Commissioner Smith.
14 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
15 Yesterday in the committee, dealing with Declaration of
16 Rights, Article I, a question came up because two
17 proposals came before the committee yesterday, in proposal
18 form. Rule 2.13 provides that we should have three days,
19 three commission meeting days from the day a proposal is
20 received to act upon it. Yesterday was a commission day,
21 today is a commission day, and Wednesday the 12th is a
22 commission day. We had intended, with regard to this
23 issue, the issues involved in those two proposals, to
24 workshop the issue on Wednesday the 12th, so we TP'd the
25 issue, and the question to the Chair is, whether or not,
regard to this particular rule, in workshopping it or
2 whatever, whether that counts in the three days, because
3 that's, you know, that's the first time it's come up.
4 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: We have discussed this and
5 figured that it's going to be a problem and we are going
6 to have to waive the rules quite a bit. Commissioner
7 Barkdull, this is one of the items that we'll discuss with
8 the chairmen at 1:00. But probably what will be done is
9 the rules committee will make a blanket motion to waive
10 that rule as it relates to items pending before the
11 committees at the next session when we start. And that
12 would give you the time that you need to go forward. That
13 rule, we knew was going to be a problem because it -- but
14 it does keep things moving, which has got another point.
15 So I think, if I'm not correct, Commissioner
16 Barkdull, correct me. I discussed this with the
17 Secretary, and she agrees that this is what we'll have to
18 do.
19 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. One
20 quick question, the second issue that came up was, as you
21 know, with regard to consideration of the public
22 proposals, Commissioner Scott provided for us some
23 categories which we adopted for referral to respective
24 committees. Under the particular categories, one in
25 particular that relates to our committee, a specific
proposal did not receive the ten votes, but it's
2 within the category that was approved and accepted and
3 referred.
4 If by November 26th, November 25th being the last day
5 for individual commissioners to submit proposals, no one
6 submits that specific proposal; on the 26th, is that
7 particular proposal dead? And, you know, I want to ask it
8 publicly because we looked around and there's a couple of
9 other committees that have the same problem. You can deal
10 with it in the committee meetings or whatever, but I
11 wanted to state it publicly so we can be thinking about
12 this and get an answer to it.
13 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Anything that's not acted on or
14 introduced, rather, before the Commission on that date,
15 that will be the end of the proposals. There is nothing
16 to prevent people from amending existing motions or
17 existing proposals or whatever else for any reason. So I
18 don't think this will be a big problem, but this was one
19 of the reasons that we were not too enamored with the idea
20 of having general subjects because, when you do that, you
21 don't want to eliminate those just by virtue of a
22 technicality. And I don't think the ruling of the Chair
23 will do that. Is that confusing enough or is that clear
24 enough? Commissioner Freiden.
25 COMMISSIONER FREIDIN: Mr. Chairman, at the time that
took those votes at our last meeting, I think that many
2 of us were under the impression that if we voted for a
3 general category on Commissioner Scott's list that we then
4 didn't need to vote for the specific proposals.
5 Therefore, I think we passed over, potentially passed
6 over -- like, for example, I noted on the list of actual
7 proposals that came out was the initiative issue. On
8 Commissioner Scott's list of proposals it was a general
9 thing having to do with constitutional amendment
10 initiative process, but on the list of public proposals
11 the only thing that was there was something having to do
12 with legislative initiative.
13 So I was wondering if it would be possible for you to
14 ask the staff to compare Senator Scott's list, which was
15 passed in toto to the actual proposals and to provide us
16 with a list of any issues that aren't covered so that we
17 as commissioners can file commissioner proposals if we
18 think it's appropriate?
19 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Well, we'll certainly do that.
20 It is a little staff work that's unnecessary. If you have
21 got something that's not there, introduce it. That's the
22 reason that we had the public proposals done specifically
23 was because they were specific. The general items can be
24 introduced by any person any time that's a member of this
25 Commission. And if you feel that one wasn't done, then
have somebody draft it and file it. Commissioner
2 Barkdull, do you yield to Commissioner Langley?
3 COMMISSIONER BARKDULL: Yes.
4 COMMISSIONER LANGLEY: Mr. Chairman, I think you have
5 confused us all. It was our intent, as raised by the
6 Commissioner, that when we voted for those generals, we
7 did not have to vote for the specifics when they came up.
8 And what Commissioner Smith raised was one of those didn't
9 get enough votes, well, maybe we said it's already there
10 under Scott's motion, and Scott's motion had almost
11 unanimous vote of this body. So it would be my
12 interpretation of that, that those matters are before
13 Commissioner Smith's committee right now and need not have
14 a specific proposal.
15 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: We'll take that up in the rules
16 committee. I think we are making a lot about nothing.
17 And I really think that what we'll do, if you really want
18 to do this, is we will have bill drafting take the general
19 statements that were made by Senator Scott and just draft
20 a bunch of proposals and propose them. But that would not
21 be dealing with the public proposals, and that's what we
22 were trying to do at the last meeting. Now what we are
23 going to do is proceed to our committee meetings and see
24 how this works.
25 If any of you feel that there's not something that
-- that has been proposed that should be, just notify
2 the staff and the bill drafting and they will draw the
3 proposal. Otherwise, we are going to be dealing in the
4 dark in these committees. You are going to deal with
5 specific items before the committee, not general items.
6 Commissioner Barkdull.
7 COMMISSIONER BARKDULL: I'm prepared to make a motion
8 to recess. I would like to make a comment that this
9 Commission yesterday had before it all of the public
10 proposals that had not received ten votes at the last
11 meeting, so there was a second opportunity to specifically
12 move matters yesterday, and that's why they were all
13 listed in your pamphlet and on the calendar.
14 If there's nothing else then, Mr. Chair, I would move
15 that we recess until the hour of 9:00 a.m. on Wednesday,
16 November the 12th.
17 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: All right. That would mean that
18 we would not meet tomorrow; is that correct?
19 COMMISSIONER BARKDULL: That's my understanding,
20 unless some committee wants to schedule a committee
21 meeting, we would not have a session tomorrow.
22 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: Of course, the committees can
23 schedule at any time in the interim, but they have to be
24 here in Tallahassee, the meetings do. All right. All in
25 favor, please say aye.
no.
2 (Members verbally voted.)
3 CHAIRMAN DOUGLASS: We will adjourn.
4 (Session concluded.)
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STATE OF FLORIDA:
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COUNTY OF LEON:
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I, MONA L. WHIDDON, Court Reporter, certify that I
5 was authorized to and did stenographically report the foregoing
proceedings and that the transcript is a true and complete
6 record of my stenographic notes.
7 DATED this ______ day of ____________, 1997.
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10 MONA L. WHIDDON
Court Reporter
11 Division of Administrative Hearings
1230 Apalachee Parkway
12 Tallahassee, Florida 32399-3060
(904) 488-9675 Suncom 278-9675
13 (904) 921-6847
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